Max Distance Hitting

My experience is that I can't match my max trigger delay, max lag CF results with the Right Tricep. Is it because Hitting uses a sweep release, and thus can't utilize the full potential of wristcock? I use Hitting in chipping and pitching because of superior distance control.

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe My experience is that I can't match my max trigger delay, max lag CF results with the Right Tricep. Is it because Hitting uses a sweep release, and thus can't utilize the full potential of wristcock? I use Hitting in chipping and pitching because of superior distance control.

I've always been a swinger, but have been working on hitting with my irons at the range with increasingly better results each time out. The last time out, the click on my ancient Hogan irons sounded like rifle shots, followed by turf flying. Direction was controlled by how I positioned my clubface during setup.

The only problem is that my woods and driver shots have gone to Hades, either swinging or hitting. The work never ends.

There's a reason why 95+% of tour players use CF instead of the Right Tricep!

Indeed. I've been excited by all this new (to me) hitting information because this technique perfectly describes my own swing tendencies. But this excitement became somewhat abated this week when I was observing the pros on the range at the Buick Invitational here in San Diego. They pretty much all looked like swingers to me. As one who aspires to achieving a similar level of ball striking, am I straying down the wrong path as a hitter?

Jazzyshan,

Yes, most of them seem to be max lag, snap releasers, which in my opinion, guarantees they are Swinging, and not Hitting. If, when the hands reach the right thigh on the downswing, the shaft is still above horizontal, it's pretty certain they got there via CF. Yoda's Swinging and Hitting motions are geometrically equivalent with only the physics differing, but I believe that is because he is a sweep release Swinger rather than a max lag, snap releaser.

So, I'd say if you're aspiring to tour quality ball striking, you're better off forgetting about Hitting for full shots. But, I have a feeling Yoda may have other thoughts.

Love the 'sound' of the rifle shot DOWNWARD impact

Very much like a 22


"Drive the ball to China" - B. Doyle

I beleive More Norman was quoted as saying "I play through the golf course".

Yoda was remembering distances that I'd used in a few shots when we played together. I got a little crazy on a few holes and "NUKED" a couple. I'm purely hitting these days, and I play with VERY FEW people that are capable of hitting it past me. My distances are long for most...
LW 100
SW 115
GW 130
PW 140
9I 150
8I 160
7I 170
6I 185
5I 200
7W 215
5W 235
3W 255
DR 280 carry
These distances are with "normal" lag pressure. (the pressure with which I play-not trying to get crazy) In fact, I'll give you a short story that was really funny to me. When my distances started getting so high, I thought that my clubs must have been sent to me de-lofted. I went to the local equipment store and had them checked. My LW measured 60.5 and my SW measured 56.5. They were opposite of what I thought; they were actually half a degree weak.
...can't blame the extra distance on the clubs...have to blame it on YODA and TGM.

Originally Posted by YodasLuke Yoda was remembering distances that I'd used in a few shots when we played together. I got a little crazy on a few holes and "NUKED" a couple. I'm purely hitting these days, and I play with VERY FEW people that are capable of hitting it past me. My distances are long for most...
LW 100
SW 115
GW 130
PW 140
9I 150
8I 160
7I 170
6I 185
5I 200
7W 215
5W 235
3W 255
DR 280 carry
These distances are with "normal" lag pressure. (the pressure with which I play-not trying to get crazy) In fact, I'll give you a short story that was really funny to me. When my distances started getting so high, I thought that my clubs must have been sent to me de-lofted. I went to the local equipment store and had them checked. My LW measured 60.5 and my SW measured 56.5. They were opposite of what I thought; they were actually half a degree weak.
...can't blame the extra distance on the clubs...have to blame it on YODA and TGM.

I met Ted last month when I took my lesson with Yoda. I have some nice footage of him on my own personal DVD now!

The thing that I thought was most amazing was Ted does not take his hands high and does not have a lot of wrist cock at the top - in fact it looked to me like he was taking a 3/4 backstroke. He sets up at exactly impact fix and starts up from there (correct me if I'm wrong Ted).

I said, "Man, you don't take the club back very far at all"

He said, "That's it. That's all there is."

You're exactly right.
I have no right wrist cock, and I do start at impact fix which is perfectly fine for a hitter. My top looks very short to most, but not to Yoda.
P.S. I'm glad to see you here on the Forum...

Originally Posted by YodasLuke You're exactly right.
I have no right wrist cock, and I do start at impact fix which is perfectly fine for a hitter. My top looks very short to most, but not to Yoda.
P.S. I'm glad to see you here on the Forum...

Yes, those were my pre-TGM eyes making that observation - at the time. One month later I agree with Yoda - you are doing it right!!!

Yodasluke,

Is that pure 3 barrel hitting or 4 barrel hitting that's producing those distances?

DG

Dear Yodasluke,

How far downplane does your right shoulder move to start the downswing (first stage rocket) before the right arm drives (second stage rocket) the #1pp all the way down until low point is obliterated?

YodasLuke.....question for you:

Our distances with the irons are pretty identical but i am only getting about 265 yards carry max with my driver.

I've been wondering if i'm just not launching the ball high enough. Is 280 just routine for you or is it something you optimized through a launch monitor. And if so what were your ball speed numbers and launch/spin characteristics?

I swing around 105-107 (down a little from last year) and get ball speeds in the high 150s and low 160s, launch in the 12-13 range with spin in the 2700-3000 range.

thanks

jim

Delaware,
I am a 4 barrel hitter. The startdown takes up the slack. With regard to inertia, the club is trying to stay at rest. #4 is loaded momentarily to do the job of changing directions. Then I destroy the ground by trying to drive the ball to Bejing. I feel like my four barrel aplication is like .44 magnums, not .22's.

Who says you can't shake the axis of the earth with a golf club??

Jim, I actually did it through club fitting. Most would never believe that someone with those types of distances would use a 10 degree driver. The loft and flex of the shaft can have a HUGE effect on distance. It was funny when I was placed on another manufacturers' launch monitor. He said, "your launch angle is perfect! Have you done this before?" I told him that I had done it by using a fitting cart and finding the trajectory that I liked.

Most of those that I find using 8 degree drivers are trying to get the trajectory down with equipment instead of swing mechanics. (Trying to buy trajectory, instead of understanding lag pressure.)

Thanks Luke...i've been telling myself that i don't launch the ball high enough and am switching from a 8.75* driver to a 9.75* driver. According to the most "IDEAL" swing models i should be able to get carry in the 275-280 range with a higher launch and less spin.

OK Ted, it's time we put this monster of a swing on the record. You told me about it when we chatted and I had a "I can't wait to see this...." thing going on. Then I saw Dana Quigley this weekend. I'm assuming he's not a TGMer. He had spit for a backswing, but could hold his lag forever in his forestroke. Kinda' holds hope for us older flexibility challenged.

Seriously, any chance of you puting up a vid of your swing for the Hitters?

Much appreciate all the efforts from you guys. Thanks.

Charlie

Luke,

Earlier you mentioned that at one time you were a “switter”. Now you are a true 4 barrel “hitter”. Is the difference between the two just the amount of the #4 accumulator load or perhaps the amount of time #4 is loaded?

In my quest to learn hitting, this is the one thing that I keep flip-flopping on. The more #4 I put into it, the better I seem to hit (this is indoors into a net). I’m trying to use #4 just to get the right elbow back on plane so I can drive #1. Does this seem reasonable?

Jimbo

Originally Posted by Theodan OK Ted... any chance of you putting up a vid of your swing for the Hitters?

Charlie

I'll second that request!

Originally Posted by Theodan OK Ted, it's time we put this monster of a swing on the record. You told me about it when we chatted and I had a "I can't wait to see this...." thing going on. Then I saw Dana Quigley this weekend. I'm assuming he's not a TGMer. He had spit for a backswing, but could hold his lag forever in his forestroke. Kinda' holds hope for us older flexibility challenged.

Seriously, any chance of you puting up a vid of your swing for the Hitters?

Much appreciate all the efforts from you guys. Thanks.

Charlie

Yoda and I have discussed putting my hit, and many other things in video and stills on this site. I'll assure you that it will be done, and that it will be sooner rather than later. Yoda has been EXTREMELY busy writing posts, as you can see. I'm going to try to send one of my clips to one of the site administrators.
One thing that I've found that my computer will do much better than any of the video e-mail devices is the amount of frames that you can see. My computer will show 64 frames per second where most video streams come in 32 frames per second by e-mail. I'm sure it's the program that I use. (computer coach)
If any of you computer guys could provide any solutions, I'd be all ears.

Originally Posted by Jimbo Luke,

Earlier you mentioned that at one time you were a “switter”. Now you are a true 4 barrel “hitter”. Is the difference between the two just the amount of the #4 accumulator load or perhaps the amount of time #4 is loaded?

In my quest to learn hitting, this is the one thing that I keep flip-flopping on. The more #4 I put into it, the better I seem to hit (this is indoors into a net). I’m trying to use #4 just to get the right elbow back on plane so I can drive #1. Does this seem reasonable?

Jimbo…

Jimbo,
When I first started seeking help, I was taught to be a swinger with an angled hinge action. My grip was never addressed and my left hand was very turned (strong) and bent. Furthermore, I was also taught to flatten my left wrist at the top of the swing or "end." Needless to say, I could hook a SW about 50 yards. All of this resulted in a "hold on for dear life" feel coming into impact to prevent the ball from putting on it's left turn signal. Most of my shots were hooks and pushes. The results were strictly dependent on my ability to keep the clubface from closing.

With all of that garbage in my past, I've become much more robotic. My body is extremely quiet. I feel as though my legs are stuck in concrete, almost zero pivot feel. My forearm is placed on plane as described in 7-3. I focus very much on extensor action as listed in 12-3, in most of my practice sessions. After the taking up of the slack (a slight bump in the startdown that loads #4), I try to drive the #1 pressure point into the ground. When I begin my practice sessions I'll monitor my hinge action in some basic strokes. I'll go to both arms straight a few times and hit some very low trajectory punch shots. With my past considered, angled hinging feels normal to me. Keeping my body from continuing to rotate did not feel normal. If the #1 pressure point is truly driving through impact, the #4 pressure point is being relieved of any pressure. In other words, #1 is pushing the left arm off the chest. That's why you can't be pulling and pushing at the same time.

Additionally, I never question someone's feel, but I will use video to find if "feel is real." The video never lies.

Originally Posted by YodasLuke Yoda was remembering distances that I'd used in a few shots when we played together. I got a little crazy on a few holes and "NUKED" a couple. I'm purely hitting these days, and I play with VERY FEW people that are capable of hitting it past me. My distances are long for most...
LW 100
SW 115
GW 130
PW 140
9I 150
8I 160
7I 170
6I 185
5I 200
7W 215
5W 235
3W 255
DR 280 carry
These distances are with "normal" lag pressure. (the pressure with which I play-not trying to get crazy) In fact, I'll give you a short story that was really funny to me. When my distances started getting so high, I thought that my clubs must have been sent to me de-lofted. I went to the local equipment store and had them checked. My LW measured 60.5 and my SW measured 56.5. They were opposite of what I thought; they were actually half a degree weak.
...can't blame the extra distance on the clubs...have to blame it on YODA and TGM.

Would you identify your component variations for component #1 through #9?

DRW

Would you identify your component variations for component #1 through #9?



Sure...
1. 10-1-A, Overlapping
2. 10-2-B, Strong single action
3. 10-3-A, Punch
4. 10-4-D, Four Barrel
5. 10-5-B, Square-Open
6. 10-6-B, Turned Shoulder
7. 10-7-A, Zero or No Shift
8. 10-8-B, Special
9. 10-9-B, Impact

I believe Yoda mentioned before that closed-closed is recommended for hitter at advance level. Could you tell us why you are using a square open stance. I know it related to the person but is there any guides why someone will use square square, square open etc.. Any advantages on square open?

You get that kind of distance with a 'punch'?

You must be a hefty fellow, I'd be curious to know how you hit it with a 'pitch'?

Originally Posted by tgmer I believe Yoda mentioned before that closed-closed is recommended for hitter at advance level. Could you tell us why you are using a square open stance. I know it related to the person but is there any guides why someone will use square square, square open etc.. Any advantages on square open?

Yoda does not recommend the closed-closed variation for hitting. I have talked to him, and he will comment further in this thread.

Regarding my personal square-open combination, the TGM player can change any stroke component to create a different result. Because of my open stance (10-5-B), I automatically create a Delayed Pivot (10-12-C). In other words, I have created a restricted backstroke (relative to the Free Turn of 10-12-A) and a free follow-through.

It gives me a very robotic feel, as if my legs are stuck in concrete. I almost have a zero pivot feel.

Originally Posted by YodasLuke
Yoda does not recommend the closed-closed variation for hitting. I have talked to him, and he will comment further in this thread.

Regarding my personal square-open combination, the TGM player can change any stroke component to create a different result. Because of my open stance (10-5-B), I automatically create a Delayed Pivot (10-12-C). In other words, I have created a restricted backstroke (relative to the Free Turn of 10-12-A) and a free follow-through.

It gives me a very robotic feel, as if my legs are stuck in concrete. I almost have a zero pivot feel.

Your preference for Square-Open has my attention, Ted. Personally, I've been migrating in the opposite direction toward Square-Closed. I'm looking forward to more comments from you and Yoda on this topic.

Isn't that the beauty of Mr Kelleys work, the variations and how they work for each individual. What may provide better adherence to the three imperatives for one may not for another. Get with you AI and find your stroke pattern!


Good G.O.L.F.ing,

Todd

Originally Posted by Yoda

Originally Posted by johngolf33 Dear Yodasluke,

How far downplane does your right shoulder move to start the downswing (first stage rocket) before the right arm drives (second stage rocket) the #1pp all the way down until low point is obliterated?

JG33,

While we await Dr. YodasLuke, let me apply this tourniquet:

You obliterate the Impact Point Plane Line. You only touch the Low Point Plane Line.

Unless, of course, the Impact Point is the Low Point. In which case, you obliterate neither.

Dear Yodasluke,

I was curiouos about your thoughts on how far downplane does the right shoulder move on the downswing before the right arm straightens?

Originally Posted by YodasLuke Delaware,
I am a 4 barrel hitter. The startdown takes up the slack. With regard to inertia, the club is trying to stay at rest. #4 is loaded momentarily to do the job of changing directions. Then I destroy the ground by trying to drive the ball to Bejing. I feel like my four barrel aplication is like .44 magnums, not .22's.

Who says you can't shake the axis of the earth with a golf club??

Dear Yodasluke,

Driving the ball to Bejing is a great analogy to hitting Down. Do you feel the #2 accumulator really uncock from impact to low point?

Originally Posted by johngolf33

Originally Posted by YodasLuke Delaware,
I am a 4 barrel hitter. The startdown takes up the slack. With regard to inertia, the club is trying to stay at rest. #4 is loaded momentarily to do the job of changing directions. Then I destroy the ground by trying to drive the ball to Bejing. I feel like my four barrel aplication is like .44 magnums, not .22's.

Who says you can't shake the axis of the earth with a golf club??

Dear Yodasluke,

Driving the ball to Bejing is a great analogy to hitting Down. Do you feel the #2 accumulator really uncock from impact to low point?

I do feel uncocking, as a result of #1.

Originally Posted by YodasLuke

Originally Posted by johngolf33

Originally Posted by YodasLuke Delaware,
I am a 4 barrel hitter. The startdown takes up the slack. With regard to inertia, the club is trying to stay at rest. #4 is loaded momentarily to do the job of changing directions. Then I destroy the ground by trying to drive the ball to Bejing. I feel like my four barrel aplication is like .44 magnums, not .22's.

Who says you can't shake the axis of the earth with a golf club??

Dear Yodasluke,

Driving the ball to Bejing is a great analogy to hitting Down. Do you feel the #2 accumulator really uncock from impact to low point?

I do feel uncocking, as a result of #1.

Ted,

Straightline delivery and snap release?

Thanks

R

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket

Originally Posted by YodasLuke

Originally Posted by johngolf33

Originally Posted by YodasLuke Delaware,
I am a 4 barrel hitter. The startdown takes up the slack. With regard to inertia, the club is trying to stay at rest. #4 is loaded momentarily to do the job of changing directions. Then I destroy the ground by trying to drive the ball to Bejing. I feel like my four barrel aplication is like .44 magnums, not .22's.

Who says you can't shake the axis of the earth with a golf club??

Dear Yodasluke,

Driving the ball to Bejing is a great analogy to hitting Down. Do you feel the #2 accumulator really uncock from impact to low point?

I do feel uncocking, as a result of #1.

Ted,

Straightline delivery and snap release?

Thanks

R

10-23-A Straight line
and
10-24-B Non-Automatic Random Sweep huge majority of the time, although I've experimented with 10-24-D Non-Automatic Snap Release on the range

Dear Yodasluke,

Where do you start release interval in your non-automatic random sweep?

Originally Posted by johngolf33 Dear Yodasluke,

Where do you start release interval in your non-automatic random sweep?

It feels like I'm 10-24-B #1, at side release point or slightly lower.

YodasLuke, there seems to be a popular conception that almost all hitters will be predisposed to fading the ball. I tried a bit of hitting a few days ago and seemed to move plenty to the left. Was i simply offplane etc or can hitters be natural drawers of the ball?

John

JT,

You ask, "can hitters be natural drawers of the ball?" The answer is no because of the layback action of Angled Hinging. However, you can close the clubface sufficiently and line up closed to the target in order to move the ball from right to left toward the target using a PULL HOOK. OR, you can develop the skill to manipulate the clubface and use a Horizontal Hinge in order to Hit a TRUE DRAW.