Why Crossline For Hitting?

comdpa
I don't have the answer, but I am curious to know why hitters have to adopt a cross line procedure and hence use a 10-5-E.

Anyone with answers?
Yoda
Originally Posted by comdpa I don't have the answer, but I am curious to know why hitters have to adopt a cross line procedure and hence use a 10-5-E.

Anyone with answers?
Hitters and Swingers alike can use the true Geometric Plane Line (the Baseline of the Inclined Plane). Being the 'Basic Basic', it can always substitute for either of its Visual Equivalents, i.e., the Swinger's Arc of Approach and the Hitter's Angle of Approach.

Just be aware that the Right Arm's Drive through Impact is a linear motion that will tend to take the Club above Plane during the Follow-Through. If you need a Delivery Line to help guide this motion, then it's time to adopt the Closed Plane Line of 10-5-E. Remember, though, that you don't Trace -- point at -- this Line with the Clubhead. Instead, you cover it.
comdpa
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by comdpa I don't have the answer, but I am curious to know why hitters have to adopt a cross line procedure and hence use a 10-5-E.

Anyone with answers?
Hitters and Swingers alike can use the true Geometric Plane Line (the Baseline of the Inclined Plane). Being the 'Basic Basic', it can always substitute for either of its Visual Equivalents, i.e., the Swinger's Arc of Approach and the Hitter's Angle of Approach.

Just be aware that the Right Arm's Drive through Impact is a linear motion that will tend to take the Club above Plane during the Follow-Through. If you need a Delivery Line to help guide this motion, then it's time to adopt the Closed Plane Line of 10-5-E. Remember, though, that you don't Trace -- point at -- this Line with the Clubhead. Instead, you cover it.
per 1-L-6,even when using a 10-5-E, the clubhead covers the closed plane line, but still points at the base of the inclined plane right, since they are all the same.

I would think that here, the 10-5-E plane line is the hitter's equivalent of the swinger's arc of approach. Kee-rect?
Yoda
Originally Posted by comdpa
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by comdpa I don't have the answer, but I am curious to know why hitters have to adopt a cross line procedure and hence use a 10-5-E.

Anyone with answers?
Hitters and Swingers alike can use the true Geometric Plane Line (the Baseline of the Inclined Plane). Being the 'Basic Basic', it can always substitute for either of its Visual Equivalents, i.e., the Swinger's Arc of Approach and the Hitter's Angle of Approach.

Just be aware that the Right Arm's Drive through Impact is a linear motion that will tend to take the Club above Plane during the Follow-Through. If you need a Delivery Line to help guide this motion, then it's time to adopt the Closed Plane Line of 10-5-E. Remember, though, that you don't Trace -- point at -- this Line with the Clubhead. Instead, you cover it.
Per 1-L-6, even when using a 10-5-E, the clubhead covers the closed plane line, but still points at the base of the inclined plane right, since they are all the same.

I would think that here, the 10-5-E plane line is the hitter's equivalent of the swinger's arc of approach. Kee-rect?
Sorry, Compda, but the answer is 'no' on both counts.

1. The original Inclined Plane (and its Baseline) ceases to exist. Its only purpose for the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure is to identify the Impact Point and Low Point and hence, the Angle of Approach itself. Once this 'out to right field' Delivery Line has been determined, the Closed Plane Line of 10-5-E can be used as its proxy. However, that Line is not then used as an Inside-Out Geometric Plane Line -- for Tracing. Instead, it is used as the Visual Equivalent -- of the original Plane Line -- for Covering (with the Clubhead). I might add that this substitute Delivery Line can be Traced by the Right Forearm (since it cannot extend in length and thus cover the Line as does the Clubhead).

2. The Swinger using the Arc of Approach actually approaches his Delivery Line (the Plane Line) from the inside (on that Arc). The Hitter using the Angle of Approach (covering with the Clubhead -- not Tracing -- the Inside-Out 10-5-E Baseline as the Guide Line) does not approach his substitute Guide Line from the Inside. He is already on it. Hence Homer Kelley's famous line:

"There is no Angle of Approach to an Angle of Approach..." (2-J-3-B).
tongzilla
Thanks Yoda for your post. It answered one of the questions I asked at Woodmont which you didn't have time to answer (remember? ).

Lets clarify...it helps me to incubate...

Swinger's Delivery Line = The Basic Geometric Plane Line (the gutter).
Edit:Hitter's Delivery Line = 10-5-E / Closed Plane Line (proxy for Angle of Approach)

1. There is no Angle of Approach to an Angle of Approach procedure because the clubhead is actually covering (this means if I drop the clubhead vertically down, it would land on the Delivery Line) the Delivery Line, not approaching it (from the inside) unlike the Arc of Approach. Just a thought...but can I say there is no Arc of Approach to an Arc of Approach procedure because the the clubhead is covering the Arc of Approach (yes, sounds clumsy...)? But the Arc of Approach itself isn't a Delivery Line, is it? What defines a Delivery Line? (Homer says it guides the clubhead...but not very clear...)


2. So the 10-5-E plane line is not actually being traced, because it isn't the true geometric plane line. It's only used as a Delivery Line, and the clubhead just covers it. This is what I don't get: how can you cover the 10-5-E plane line with the clubhead and trace it with your right forearm at the same time? Surely, if you're covering this line, the shaft/right forearm (they should be in-line because of the right forearm flying wedge alignment) must be pointing outside it. Please explain.
Yoda
Originally Posted by tongzilla Thanks Yoda for your post. It answered one of the questions I asked at Woodmont which you didn't have time to answer (remember? ).

Lets clarify...it helps me to incubate...

Swinger's Delivery Line = The Basic Geometric Plane Line (the gutter).
Hitter's Delivery Line = The Angle of Approach (proxy for 10-5-E)

1. There is no Angle of Approach to an Angle of Approach procedure because the clubhead is actually covering (this means if I drop the clubhead vertically down, it would land on the Delivery Line) the Delivery Line, not approaching it (from the inside) unlike the Arc of Approach. Just a thought...but can I say there is no Arc of Approach to an Arc of Approach procedure because the the clubhead is covering the Arc of Approach (yes, sounds clumsy...)? But the Arc of Approach itself isn't a Delivery Line, is it? What defines a Delivery Line? (Homer says it guides the clubhead...but not very clear...)


2. So the 10-5-E plane line is not actually being traced, because it isn't the true geometric plane line. It's only used as a Delivery Line, and the clubhead just covers it. This is what I don't get: how can you cover the 10-5-E plane line with the clubhead and trace it with your right forearm at the same time? Surely, if you're covering this line, the shaft/right forearm (they should be in-line because of the right forearm flying wedge alignment) must be pointing outside it. Please explain.
Good work, Leo. I admire your effort and persistence in 'getting it right' and am happy to assist.

1. The Closed Plane Line of 10-5-E is the proxy for the Angle of Approach, not the other way around. Change your wording from "proxy for 10-5-E" to "proxy is 10-5-E" and you've got it.

2. You are correct: There is no Arc of Approach to the Arc of Approach.

3. A selected Delivery Line is the player's means of maintaining the essential On Plane geometry of the Stroke through Impact. That Delivery Line can be either the Straight Plane Line or one of its two Visual Equivalents, the Arc or Angle of Approach.

4. Regarding the Right Forearm tracing the Angle of Approach, I don't see the problem. If it were long enough -- its length constantly varying as necessary -- it would cover the Line, just as it would cover the true Geometric Plane Line (if you were using it instead). Visualize a flashlight strapped to the Forearm and its beam covering the Line from Release to the end of the Follow-Through.
comdpa
Thanks Yoda...

So let me clarify with you on the "art" of hitting.

Can I set up square but instead of using the 10-5-A as a guide line, I disregard that and see 10-5-E as my guideline instead.

And I will align my clubface closed in relation to my target line to accomodate for angled hinging - which necessarily requires a strong grip if one is to maintain flying wedges.

This would be the angle of approach right?

And my clubhead will be covering this 10-5-E line.

Thanks for helping out...
Yoda
Originally Posted by comdpa Thanks Yoda...

So let me clarify with you on the "art" of hitting.

Can I set up square but instead of using the 10-5-A as a guide line, I disregard that and see 10-5-E as my guideline instead.

And I will align my clubface closed in relation to my target line to accomodate for angled hinging - which necessarily requires a strong grip if one is to maintain flying wedges.

This would be the angle of approach right?

And my clubhead will be covering this 10-5-E line.

Thanks for helping out...
Yes all 'round, Compda.

Just make sure that your Backstroke is very steep...as it must be to maintain the Clubhead Covering of the 10-5-E Delivery Line. It is very easy to lapse into a 'Tracing' mode, and that will result in a Right Elbow that slips back and behind you and a Clubhead that gets too far inside. Extensor Action is a big help here. Make sure you have it from Start Up to Follow-Through.
comdpa
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by comdpa Thanks Yoda...

So let me clarify with you on the "art" of hitting.

Can I set up square but instead of using the 10-5-A as a guide line, I disregard that and see 10-5-E as my guideline instead.

And I will align my clubface closed in relation to my target line to accomodate for angled hinging - which necessarily requires a strong grip if one is to maintain flying wedges.

This would be the angle of approach right?

And my clubhead will be covering this 10-5-E line.

Thanks for helping out...
Yes all 'round, Compda.

Just make sure that your Backstroke is very steep...as it must be to maintain the Clubhead Covering of the 10-5-E Delivery Line. It is very easy to lapse into a 'Tracing' mode, and that will result in a Right Elbow that slips back and behind you and a Clubhead that gets too far inside. Extensor Action is a big help here. Make sure you have it from Start Up to Follow-Through.
I got you Yoda. In 12-3-0, Extensor Action is mentioned so many times and after a while I figured its for a reason. Now my left hand is hardly used except when I swing.

When I do 12-5-1 and 12-5-2 as well as 12-1-0, the left hand is just there for the ride. Apply extensor action, right forearm picks up, drive the right shoulder down plane and WHOOSH!

Thanks !!
tongzilla
After a bit of real world testing here is what I found:

Although the concept of Arc and Angle of Approach is ingenious, its practical use as a procedure is inferior. Inferior to what? I am referring to the Aiming Point Concept (6-E-2) which can be used for both Hitters and Swingers. The idea of mentally constructing an imaginery line from Pressure Point #3 to the Aiming Point on the Plane Line automatically traces the Straight Plane Line, whether you're using the Geometric or its Visual Equivalents. It also has the advantage of monitoring the Delivery Path at the same time. Which has higher priority than Clubhead Delivery Line. I also found that one is less susceptible to Steering the Clubhead when using the Aiming Point Concept.

Procedures are optional...so you can do whatever you want at the end of the day...just my take.