Just wondering from a simple tgm perspective how the pga pros get that 30+ yard roll on a lot of their drives. I understand they play on some firm fairways, but even on normal fairways they get major roll.
The fairways are well manicured. I mean they run as fast as some of the greens that we normally play on
Other than that the Pros tend to hit the ball better as a rule than us mere mortals.
Alex
High launch ....low spin ....
Average mortal...low launch high spin around both the vertical and the horizontal axis
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
High launch ....low spin ....
Average mortal...low launch high spin around both the vertical and the horizontal axis
I'd be interested to hear your take on how the high launch and low spin is achieved.
I made these two exaggerated alternatives of the angle of approach v/s loft at the moment of impact, i.e. just before the ball deforms. Hope the idea gets through.
Would you be able to comment on which of these - if any - better represents a typical pro impact - in particular regarding spin and launch angle.
They hit draws with lots of topspin.
If they truly had topspin...the ball wouldn't have "lift"... or would it????
Draws have a lower spin ratio vertical to horizontal than fades...Right????
As far as the nice illustrations...I cannot make an educated comment...I don't understand ...I'm not an expert on Chapter 2
Skywalker
We have all hit balls with topspin and know they go absolutely nowhere - or very far, but low.
Here's a pic I made for a similar discussion on a Swedish forum. Legend in Swedish, but you'll get it. Basically Ch2 stuff.
I'm pretty sure matt was joking about the "top spin," notice the smiley lol.
ANYWAY
The whole "high launch/low spin" thing helps YES, but even those hitting super high fades with higer spin rates are STILL ROLLING IT OUT 20-25+ YARDS!
The simple reason why is due to the fairways. They cut them short as hell (3/8" i believe) and then they bake them out so that they will run FAST. It makes it harder to keep the ball in the fairway.
For instance i made a post on FGI a long time ago asking who has played before/after a MAJOR GOLF TOURNAMENT. Whether it be an amatuer event, PGA event, LPGA, Nationwide, Hooters Tour, ETC and i asked how much further were they hitting the ball on account of the "conditions."
The low was 15 yards further than they were used to and the high was almost 25 yards further than they were used to simply due to the faster fairways.
HOWEVER
Optimizing your launch conditions through swing changes and proper equiptment should help you yield the longest distance possible. then when you get on a baked fairway, the extra roll is a bonus
I know it has been debated over and over but here are pics of H Keune
and he is defintely hitting up on the ball. Not that I recommend.
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/84599/1/2942907
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/84599/1/2942905
Originally Posted by mb6606
I know it has been debated over and over but here are pics of H Keune
and he is defintely hitting up on the ball. Not that I recommend.
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/84599/1/2942907
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/84599/1/2942905
Doesn't look like he is hitting up on the ball to me.....
DG
I think the key factor is if the ball is before or after low point. The mechanics dictate that, prior to lowpoint in a non compensating stroke, the ball will be hit in a downward angle, correct?
However, I am sure Homer was aware that more roll would be gained by hitting 'up' on the ball.
Comments?
No offense, but don't hijack this thread.
If you want to start an arguement about hitting up or down with a driver, start a new one.
Originally Posted by jim_0068
No offense, but don't hijack this thread.
If you want to start an arguement about hitting up or down with a driver, start a new one.
Jim,
Sounds like you know the book pretty well...I won't include the sentence with the driver but at least the comment about hitting up by Homer should be included in this thread.
Homer from 2-J-2......"Hitting "up" produces Duffers. And almost all Topped Shots."
DG
Moderators please feel free to move this discussion to where it belongs.
===============================================
With a Flat Left Wrist and Ball placed before Low Point, it is not possible to 'hit up'. I hope everyone agrees with that.
There are two types of hitting up:
1) Duffer's Type -- e.g. Bent Left Wrist procedure.
2) Hitting up with a Flat Left Wrist with the ball placed after Low Point and prior to Full Extension of the Lever Assembly.
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Moderators please feel free to move this discussion to where it belongs.
Thanks Tong, but I think we are still relatively on topic. For drives, a optimal launch/lowspin shot would provide max carry. Fairway conditions are the biggest determinate on roll.
I doubt there is a pro on tour that doesn't spend a great deal of time getting the right equipment combination for the above.
For those interested in hitting up vs. down, I would encourage a search on this forum for topic information. Include the archives, there is a wealth of good information.
Bagger
Delaware....i know what i know from brian and the wonderful people on the forums just like you.
I just know from prior experience how HEATED the whole up/down debate can get and i didn't want it to ruin a rather productive thread.
DG,
The club in both photos is below the ball 6 inches before contact. The club cannot possibly go lower without taking a huge divot and skymarking the club.
With the newer HUGE driver heads, some things have changed. What changed? Ball position, not the Geometry of the Circle. As Phillygolf tried to point out, the integrity of the circle and low point remains the same regardless of ball location. This is important.
Even master Yoda made mention of this ball positon to low point refernce with teed balls - might find it at Manzella's hide-away.
