The Secret of Golf

Originally Posted by Yoda Aahhh...my own corner office. Cool!

Now let me see...what can I do to get this thing started off right? How about The Secret of Golf? Coming soon to a computer screen near you!

Which one?

Bring it on Yoda

The secret of golf,
the secret of golf or
the secret of golf

Which one is it
Yoda - give it to us: the secret of golf

tongzilla is very excited about the revamped forum and is poised to make his first contribution. I hope Yoda won't smack me with his dowels for butting in .

As phillygolf has elluded to earlier, there are two Secrets of Golf. I will give an overview which hopefully will spark off some discussion.


1) Sustaining the Line of Compression (2-0).
One can imagine this to be a shooting a pool stick through cue ball. The straight path the cue takes as it goes through the ball is the Line of Compression. The point where the stick striks the ball is the Compression Point. This is a Linear Force, which simply means the force acts in a straight line.

In golf, the Clubhead is moving in a circle, hence we have Angular Force. But our objective is to produce the same effect as a Linear Force with the orbiting Clubhead. We achieve this by having the contact point between the Ball and Clubface welded at the same point from Impact to Separation. All while the Clubhead is moving in an arc.

This can only be achieved by using Horizontal Hinging.

Hitters using Angled Hinging does not have the Clubface and Clubshaft rotating around the same center (in fact the Clubface has no center), and hence cannot maintain the same Compression Point through Impact. So you better find a good way to compensate for this inferiorty if you're a Hitter!


2) Clubhead Lag (6-C-2)
There are actually three types of Lag: Pivot Lag (Body Poit for Swingers and Launching Pad for Hitters), Accumulator Lag (6-B-1/2/3/4) and Clubhead Lag (6-C-2). So that angle between the Clubshaft and Left Arm everyone in the Golf World talks about is merely Accumulator #2 Lag. Contrary to popular belief, you can be using a Sweep Release and still have lots of Clubhead Lag.

Clubhead lag is that heaviness you feel through Pressure Point #3 as Club changes direction. The Longitundinal Center of Gravity of the Club (i.e. the Sweetspot), resists that change due to its inertia (i.e. mass). The Sweetspot doesn't want to move, but it has to. This stresses the Clubshaft and produces that heavy feeling which you try to maintain all the way down, never even thinking about releasing this heaviness. This feel may be cultivated by dragging a wet mop from Release to Follow-Through.

Originally Posted by tongzilla tongzilla is very excited about the revamped forum and is poised to make his first contribution. I hope Yoda won't smack me with his dowels for butting in .

As phillygolf has elluded to earlier, there are two Secrets of Golf. I will give an overview which hopefully will spark off some discussion.


1) Sustaining the Line of Compression (2-0).
One can imagine this to be a shooting a pool stick through cue ball. The straight path the cue takes as it goes through the ball is the Line of Compression. The point where the stick striks the ball is the Compression Point. This is a Linear Force, which simply means the force acts in a straight line.

In golf, the Clubhead is moving in a circle, hence we have Angular Force. But our objective is to produce the same effect as a Linear Force with the orbiting Clubhead. We achieve this by having the contact point between the Ball and Clubface welded at the same point from Impact to Separation. All while the Clubhead is moving in an arc.

This can only be achieved by using Horizontal Hinging.

Hitters using Angled Hinging does not have the Clubface and Clubshaft rotating around the same center (in fact the Clubface has no center), and hence cannot maintain the same Compression Point through Impact. So you better find a good way to compensate for this inferiorty if you're a Hitter!


2) Clubhead Lag (6-C-2)
There are actually three types of Lag: Pivot Lag (Body Poit for Swingers and Launching Pad for Hitters), Accumulator Lag (6-B-1/2/3/4) and Clubhead Lag (6-C-2). So that angle between the Clubshaft and Left Arm everyone in the Golf World talks about is merely Accumulator #2 Lag. Contrary to popular belief, you can be using a Sweep Release and still have lots of Clubhead Lag.

Clubhead lag is that heaviness you feel through Pressure Point #3 as Club changes direction. The Longitundinal Center of Gravity of the Club (i.e. the Sweetspot), resists that change due to its inertia (i.e. mass). The Sweetspot doesn't want to move, but it has to. This stresses the Clubshaft and produces that heavy feeling which you try to maintain all the way down, never even thinking about releasing this heaviness. This feel may be cultivated by dragging a wet mop from Release to Follow-Through.

I am not sure that I can buy into the logic.

True Angle Hinging per-se lack a true center, BUT it is quite clear the component composition in 12-1-0 for a Hitter is to use Angle Hinging.

Now 2-C-0 (Linear Force) does elude to '..perfectly centered action -- or a compensating manipulation', however it discusses that the Physical Center not be the center of the ball or gravitational center, just the point of compression. "In other words, the original contact points of the Clubface and ball must remain in contact throughout the entire Impact Interval. This is possible only if the motion--or arc--is uniform..."

So I guess what I am saying I don't track with your logic regarding Horizontal Hinging. In fact what would you say in regards to Vertical Hinging?

And I am a bit concerned that it appears that Hinging is the Key to Sustaining the Line of Compression, I thought there were some other elements that were of equal if not more importance.

Originally Posted by Yoda The secret is out and jig is up. No need for me to write: I'm goin' fishin'!

Lynn -- BD did make an impression on you, didn't he? You have been dragging that mop around with you everywhere.

Originally Posted by Yoda The secret is out and jig is up. No need for me to write: I'm goin' fishin'!

The jig isn't up til someone explains in detail just how that "secret" is to be physically realized.

Originally Posted by Martee Sorry I mistyped in the second reference it was meant to be line of compression as I starte at the beginning of the post. You made it clear that hinging was your focus regarding sustaining the line of compression, that is what I am not sure is correct, maybe key is too strong of a word, but that is essentially all you addressed in your intial post.

BUT you stated


Fact, well I would like someone to not use the TGM book or statements and get some real references. Cause I know the description of longitudal center of gravity in defining the sweetspot plane is often incorrectly stated.

So if you have some time, I would be interested in the references.

Martee,

You want me to:
1) Not quote the book.
2) And you want me to give you references at the same time.

The reason is that you want some real references. So references from the book are fake and unsubstantiated?

I will quote myself again:
"The same compression point cannot be maintained during the Impact Interval when using Angled Hinging."

Disagree? Maybe someone with more authority, such as Yoda, can help.

Originally Posted by tongzilla Martee,

You want me to:
1) Not quote the book.
2) And you want me to give you references at the same time.

The reason is that you want some real references. So references from the book are fake and unsubstantiated?

I will quote myself again:
"The same compression point cannot be maintained during the Impact Interval when using Angled Hinging."

Disagree? Maybe someone with more authority, such as Yoda, can help.

I hope I am not taking you post wrong, but yes something as a reference other than the book. Its based on science, so in attempting to see it, where is it in another reference is my question.

I don't beleive I stated the book was a fake but clearly you are unable based on your response to substantiate it other than with use of the book.

If you were to put a dot on your club face and strike the ball using angled hinging, when you retrieved the ball what would you expect to see? With vertical? With Horizontal? Would the club's loft change the results? Will the ball actually move up the face changing the point of impact to point of separation?

This is somewhat of a subset of the question I have in that the role hinging plays on substaining the line of compression vs other components and their variations.

Assuming all is as stated, then what compensation does a hitter have to do in order to substain the line of compression when using Angled Hinging vs say Horizontal?

Here is another way you can think of the two Secrets of Golf.

The first secret, Sustaining the Line of Compression, concerns the Geometry of the Stroke.

The second secret, Sustaining Clubhead Lag, concerns the Physics of the Stroke.

Originally Posted by tongzilla Here is another way you can think of the two Secrets of Golf.

The first secret, Sustaining the Line of Compression, concerns the Geometry of the Stroke.

The second secret, Sustaining Clubhead Lag, concerns the Physics of the Stroke.

I don't wish to get into a contest over this topic, but it seems to me that the questions I asked are proper in seeking further understanding especially when it comes down to statements that indicate Homer indeed selected a component variation that requires compensation instead of selecting one that didn't for a pattern. Given that Homer understood what he was doing, there must be a combination that doesn't require compensation and provides a solid effective golf stroke. The heart of my quesiton is 'angled hinging' use what to not require a compensation move and be effective. I understand that a compensation would be something 'extra' or additional to make up for a deficency the way Homer used it.

So I guess the search continues unless someone can maybe clear this up, back it up, or change it.

By the way I thought I understood line of compression and clubhead lag, I just didn't understand the hinging with respect to line of compression as it was being stated, still don't.

Originally Posted by Martee The heart of my quesiton is 'angled hinging' use what to not require a compensation move and be effective. I understand that a compensation would be something 'extra' or additional to make up for a deficency the way Homer used it.

Martee...

Keep in mind that in angled hinging the clubface is staying open to the plane...versus horizontal in which it is constantly closing. So...in angled, the motion has no true center.

Not sure about the 'compensation' per se...but it may be this. To offset the layback requires that the clubface be closed at fix to offset the slice inducing tendency.

Horizontal hinging has no such tendency because the face is constantly closing in relation to the inclined plane.

Hope this helps.

Patrick

Originally Posted by 6bmike Chill out Joe. There is a two question mark limit.

I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing- you left it open as to what you thought the secret was. I live with women, my mind reading skills deteriorated years ago.



Swab the deck mate. Can't push it and have the hands ahead of the big wet heavy mop head.



He or she will have an understanding of lag after dragging a mop. One step at a time. I'm sure some time in incubation is worth owning a secret.

Tongz.. very well done, excellent post, although I heard that from you many many times from you over the phone.

Quick question the mop drill, could we say that it is more like a Hitter's drill rather then a swinger drill?

I really keen to find out a definate answer of LAG, imo LAG is more like a feeling rather then .... ..

What do you think about holding a club with a whippy shaft with your finger, and try to swing the clubhead and stress the clubshaft with minimum amount of body and hands motion.

Originally Posted by oztrainee Tongz.. very well done, excellent post, although I heard that from you many many times from you over the phone.

Quick question the mop drill, could we say that it is more like a Hitter's drill rather then a swinger drill?

When Hitting -- Drive the wet mop through Impact using muscular Right Arm Thrust, which is directly felt through Pressure Point #1 and #3.

When Swiging -- Drag the wet mop through Impact by turning your left side against your Left Arm, which is directly felt through Pressure Point #4 and indirectly felt through Pressure Point #3.

Either way, it's deliberate, positive and heavy -- constant Loading, constant direction.

Originally Posted by Martee I don't wish to get into a contest over this topic, but it seems to me that the questions I asked are proper in seeking further understanding especially when it comes down to statements that indicate Homer indeed selected a component variation that requires compensation instead of selecting one that didn't for a pattern. Given that Homer understood what he was doing, there must be a combination that doesn't require compensation and provides a solid effective golf stroke. The heart of my quesiton is 'angled hinging' use what to not require a compensation move and be effective. I understand that a compensation would be something 'extra' or additional to make up for a deficency the way Homer used it.

So I guess the search continues unless someone can maybe clear this up, back it up, or change it.

By the way I thought I understood line of compression and clubhead lag, I just didn't understand the hinging with respect to line of compression as it was being stated, still don't.

That's why if you're using Angled Hinging and you want to hit a perfectly straight shot with no side spin, it's going to be a pull shot. Clubface needs to be closed at Impact (the longer the club implies longer impact interval which means clubface more closed) to allow for the 'opening'.

But I'm not sure if Homer viewed that as a proper 'compensation' (e.g. trying to steer clubface to by bending left wrist). Like you said, the 12-1 and 12-2 Basic Patterns are supposed to be uncompensated strokes.