Ballstriker sorry Skywalker,
Dude you are the K-I-N-G A-D Whammy on the pics and graphics . . .
Could you do us all a favor based on your precision analysis of Vjay's alignments and tell us the GEOMETRY that you look for through the different stages in the Stroke when examining a player's stop frame video?
I'm gonna crank up my video camera and see where I could stand a little tweeking . . . or may be an OVERHAUL!
Thanks man!
Bucket
Bucket...you are way too flattering...just doing what I know and love dude!!!!
For you "poo-pooers" of MORAD out there...check this out!!!
Mac starts on the Hands only Plane until have way up then shifts to the Elbow plane and as aresult of the lengthening of his stroke locates the Turned Shoulder Plane even with the Rotated Shoulder Turn Component....then pending on ball flight...in this case shifts back down to the elbow plane during downstroke and impact...then after folow-through begins to shift it up to the Turned Shoulder Plane and perhaps on this shot slightly above....Definitley NOT Zero Shift!!!
But where it counts...
NOW you may not like or understand his backstroke pattern...
BUT let's TALK...
start down,downstroke, release, impact,follow-through and finish...
SHOW ME BETTER!!!
AS
AS
Another super pic
as- another great educational sequence ... thank you for the pics - really great stuff that i find greatly enhances the accessibility of the information presented ... on a hitting thread you mentioned the importance of the location/direction of the FLV lead hand and #3 PP, do you have any isolated face on pics of the lead and trail hands that illustrate where the hands need to be facing? thanks again
Once again thanks for the pic.
Great pics. What are the keys to make plane shifts less - as per Homer - "hazardous"?
Plane shifts are not as hazardous as you think..Some are dangerous while others are appropriate for altering trajectory and/or curvature....The Path of the Hands and the Path of the Clubhead,....When,Where,and, How the Power Packsge is Assembled and Loaded,Pivot Spacing and Sequence are the keys for Plane Shifts...
Golf is a Three Lane Freeway...that should've been named more appropriately a Three Lane Speedway...
BTW
Every Joint/Segment/Component has a Range of Motion, Style of Motion, Speed of Motion, and a Sequence of Motion to produce a Plane Shift...that explanation is way too deep for this forum....
I'm a newbie. Can someone please tell me what MORAD means? Thanks.
teach
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
Bucket...you are way too flattering...just doing what I know and love dude!!!!
For you "poo-pooers" of MORAD out there...check this out!!!
Mac starts on the Hands only Plane until have way up then shifts to the Elbow plane and as aresult of the lengthening of his stroke locates the Turned Shoulder Plane even with the Rotated Shoulder Turn Component....then pending on ball flight...in this case shifts back down to the elbow plane during downstroke and impact...then after folow-through begins to shift it up to the Turned Shoulder Plane and perhaps on this shot slightly above....Definitley NOT Zero Shift!!!
But where it counts...
NOW you may not like or understand his backstroke pattern...
BUT let's TALK...
start down,downstroke, release, impact,follow-through and finish...
SHOW ME BETTER!!!
AS
Looks like the Hand Plane is a set-up preference since it is abandon during take-away. I can see how it feels comfortable and strengthens the feel of accumulators #2 and #3. What does Mac like about the set up?
6B ...we'll discuss that at certain time and a certain place! Not here..but I'll see you there and then!!!
Newbie...MORAD is an acronym that has changed several times
MORAD ...Mac OGrady Research And Development
MORAD ...McCord OGrady Research And Development
MORAD....Mankinds Objective Research And Development
...Bantem Ben...has it changed since I'm no longer in the loop
I'm posting VJ's Mess vs Mac's hear cause my good friend the Bucket asked for it..Now compare ...Who's the real ballstriker???
Player A
OR
Player B
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
I'm posting VJ's Mess vs Mac's hear cause my good friend the Bucket asked for it..Now compare ...Who's the real ballstriker???
Player A
OR
Player B
.................................................. ..............
There's are obvious differences here. Their RIGHT FOREARMS, and Right Elbow/Right Hip relationships are a couple of the most apparent.
Nick Price might be another good one to see the right forearm on plane. Jodie Mudd... is probably pretty good also. McCord?
6B....W
ay to Cool
no its still makinds objective research and development and mac says just as homer had in the past if you can think of anything hes missing or has wrong let him know so he can get it in there.
Thanks BantemBen...You're right...Mac is always lookin to improve...Amazing...Aren't we all after the same prize...just going about with a different perspective...
I recall an old Golf Digest article on O'Grady from the late '80s or early '90s that mentioned that the "M" stood for "Manjikian", a dentist friend of O'Grady's, and that MORAD was the acronym for Manjikian-O'Grady Research and Development.
Whatever happened to Manjikian, and what was his role in MORAD?
RT
Originally Posted by mattsdad
I recall an old Golf Digest article on O'Grady from the late '80s or early '90s that mentioned that the "M" stood for "Manjikian", a dentist friend of O'Grady's, and that MORAD was the acronym for Manjikian-O'Grady Research and Development.
Whatever happened to Manjikian, and what was his role in MORAD?
RT
.................................................. ..............
I thought the M stood for McCord... Gary McCord.
I believe that what MORAD stands for has actually changed slightly several times.
Mac is a great ball-striker, and an accomplised teacher of tour level players.
His MORAD is his particular 'deal,' like Hardy's in One-Pane vs. Two Plane, like Ballards 7 common denominators.
All I ever said is this:
Get 100 average players and a national TV audience, & I'll teach him into retirement.
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
Bucket...you are way too flattering...just doing what I know and love dude!!!!
For you "poo-pooers" of MORAD out there...check this out!!!
Mac starts on the Hands only Plane until have way up then shifts to the Elbow plane and as aresult of the lengthening of his stroke locates the Turned Shoulder Plane even with the Rotated Shoulder Turn Component....then pending on ball flight...in this case shifts back down to the elbow plane during downstroke and impact...then after folow-through begins to shift it up to the Turned Shoulder Plane and perhaps on this shot slightly above....Definitley NOT Zero Shift!!!
But where it counts...
NOW you may not like or understand his backstroke pattern...
BUT let's TALK...
start down,downstroke, release, impact,follow-through and finish...
SHOW ME BETTER!!!
AS
.................................................. ..............
Great Pictures!!! A lot of precision in that Stroke!!
OK... Rotated Shoulder Turn... Strong grip... Wrist Action?
Start Down? Initiated by what?
Start Down from the Ground up....
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
Bucket...you are way too flattering...just doing what I know and love dude!!!!
For you "poo-pooers" of MORAD out there...check this out!!!
Mac starts on the Hands only Plane until have way up then shifts to the Elbow plane and as aresult of the lengthening of his stroke locates the Turned Shoulder Plane even with the Rotated Shoulder Turn Component....then pending on ball flight...in this case shifts back down to the elbow plane during downstroke and impact...then after folow-through begins to shift it up to the Turned Shoulder Plane and perhaps on this shot slightly above....Definitley NOT Zero Shift!!!
But where it counts...
NOW you may not like or understand his backstroke pattern...
BUT let's TALK...
start down,downstroke, release, impact,follow-through and finish...
SHOW ME BETTER!!!
AS
Skywalker~
For me understanding the shoulders as in Basic Plane Angles/Clubshaft Control and Body Control/Shoulder Turn was an effort and 7-13 SHOULDER TURN left an impression.
Although this tread may be "Advanced" concepts, considering it is posted in Basics, what is the significance of the TSP in the O'Grady analysis ?
* Mac does not reach the preselected downstroke clubshaft plane in the turn back..
* PP3 does not trace the TSP in the move down.
* Less clear from the photos, but it is questionable if the right shoulder traces the TSP in the move down.
DRW
You bring up nice points...
However.....Mac is not using the Straight Line delivery path and Zero Shift...With all due respect....He's not even using the Single Shift...
He uses a Top Arc/Angle Line for this particular shot requires a Double Shift back down to the Elbow Plane...
He started on the Hands Only Plane...I doubt this is his pre-selected downstroke plane...
You're right the Shoulder doesn't move down the Turned Shoulder....Why?
The right Shoulder is Turning on the Rotated Shoulder Turn which is at Right angles to his Spine...That being said.... the flatter planes such as the...Elbow and Hands OnlyPlanes... the Shoulder may move on a path that is "Parallel" to the Plane Angle rather than the recommended ON Plane Procedure which provides support to the Hands and the Club....
Checkout the stripes in his shirt in Frame #7...Not on-plane but....Parallel to the Elbow Plane?
This is another reason why Mac ..sets-up and has the amounts of #3 Accumulator, Waist Bend and Knee Bend....
You don't have to use the recommended pattern in Chapter 12 to be a real player...But I recommend you learn Chapter 12 before you customize it...
BTW...noticed he missed Qualifying School again....There's more to the game than a great swing and striking it pure.....Hmmmmm
Back to the pics....
The nuts and bolts are represented by frames #5,#6,#7
The significance ....is you can locate a Turned Shoulder Plane with a Rotated Shoulder Turn ...You don't need to be Standard and you don't HAVE to set-up on the Turned Shoulder unless you're lookin for a Zero Shift...I bet you asking why would he not use a zero shift...Well maybe his intentions are not to hit a straight ball? Perhaps he enjoys a stroke pattern that allows a little versatility? Rather than the "Uncompensated" recommendation in Chapter 12.
<>
No, it is not a requirement. I just wanted to know what benefit it is to locate the TSP if he was not doing anything with it and it appeared to me that he wasn't.
BTW, is there something about entering impact on the elbow plane that improves "ball striking?" I believe this is also reflected with Trevino and Ben teaches a through the waist plane.
DRW
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
I'm posting VJ's Mess vs Mac's hear cause my good friend the Bucket asked for it..Now compare ...Who's the real ballstriker???
Player A
OR
Player B
Mmm. STRONG LIKE BULL.
Ballstriker . . . Where would a player setting up on the Hands Only Plane establish the Right Forearm Flying Wedge alignments? Is there a preference? Or would it dependend on Loading and/or Hinging employeed?
In your Library of Strokes is there anyone who's alignments would approach Mac's?
GO! Go! Gadget Fog-Buster!
B
The Secret is to keep the right wrist level as you lower down to the HandsOnly plane and stand further from the ball so as to increase Waist Bend and in Mac's Case a Deep Knee Bend...The Flying wedge alignment could not be established until the plane of the clubshaft reached the plane of the right forearm without coking the right wrist...in this case...just prior to 1/2 way up...
Warning...
Most players make the huge mistake like I did... is by lowering to the Hands Only plane by Cocking Both Wrists and holding the plane of Both arms Vertical...Both a huge NO-NO!!!
Mac kept telling me my wrists(plural) were too cocked and my arms too vertical...What it looks like and what it is ...two different animals!!!
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
The Secret is to keep the right wrist level as you lower down to the HandsOnly plane and stand further from the ball so as to increase Waist Bend and in Mac's Case a Deep Knee Bend...The Flying wedge alignment could not be established until the plane of the clubshaft reached the plane of the right forearm without coking the right wrist...in this case...just prior to 1/2 way up...
Warning...
Most players make the huge mistake like I did... is by lowering to the Hands Only plane by Cocking Both Wrists and holding the plane of Both arms Vertical...Both a huge NO-NO!!!
Mac kept telling me my wrists(plural) were too cocked and my arms too vertical...What it looks like and what it is ...two different animals!!!
as- is there a biomechanical advantage to increased waist bend (mac looks at least 45 degrees!) and when you do bend that much how do you determine how far to stand from the ball? also, re: vertical arms being a no-no, it appears that mac's arms are brought
in a bit (from the vertical) toward his body (as opposed to reaching out toward the ball) and with a bend to his right elbow - is that what it is? thanks ...
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
The Secret is to keep the right wrist level as you lower down to the HandsOnly plane and stand further from the ball so as to increase Waist Bend and in Mac's Case a Deep Knee Bend...The Flying wedge alignment could not be established until the plane of the clubshaft reached the plane of the right forearm without coking the right wrist...in this case...just prior to 1/2 way up...
Warning...
Most players make the huge mistake like I did... is by lowering to the Hands Only plane by Cocking Both Wrists and holding the plane of Both arms Vertical...Both a huge NO-NO!!!
Mac kept telling me my wrists(plural) were too cocked and my arms too vertical...What it looks like and what it is ...two different animals!!!
Yep yep. I can see from the pics that his right wrist is definitely not cocked. So really he hasn't lowered his hands by cocking the wrists. He has lowered his hands via bending his hips and knees . . . No?
However, by Mr. K's definition he hasn't achieved the Right Forearm Flying Wedge at address. But he seems to have established the Right Forearm and Clubshaft in the same plane very well by the third frame huh?
And the cradle will rock . . .
Bucket...You're all over it like "white on rice"
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
The Secret is to keep the right wrist level as you lower down to the HandsOnly plane and stand further from the ball so as to increase Waist Bend and in Mac's Case a Deep Knee Bend...The Flying wedge alignment could not be established until the plane of the clubshaft reached the plane of the right forearm without coking the right wrist...in this case...just prior to 1/2 way up...
Warning...
Most players make the huge mistake like I did... is by lowering to the Hands Only plane by Cocking Both Wrists and holding the plane of Both arms Vertical...Both a huge NO-NO!!!
Mac kept telling me my wrists(plural) were too cocked and my arms too vertical...What it looks like and what it is ...two different animals!!!
annikan- could you elaborate on the arms too vertical fault - how exactly should the arms be. thanks.
What's the advantage of setting hands on the hands only plane and reaching out and bending over more, when your hands will be returning to elbow plane/turned shoulder plane at impact?
Originally Posted by tongzilla
What's the advantage of setting hands on the hands only plane and reaching out and bending over more, when your hands will be returning to elbow plane/turned shoulder plane at impact?
Something about swinging a 2 x 4 around a corner . . .
Bucket.....
You're figuring this out too quickly
Clue:
Radius of Gyration and Moment of Inertia...is smaller
Don't bother looking it up in the little yellow book....
Here I'll save you the effort:
Radius of Gyration def:
The distance(radius) from an axis of rotation to where the Mass of an object(The club) would have to be concentrated to create the same moment of inertia of the entire object about that axis: meassured in units of length or expressed as meters in SI; a scalar quantity
- Biomechanics of Sport and Exercise 2nd edition, Peter M. McGinnis,p.394
Take a baseball bat and swing it from the handle...now flip it around a swing it from it's barrell...the overall mass of the bat is the same however the concentration or distribution of its mass is different thus affecting it's moment of inertia..which is the difference of what you felt swing the bat from either end...This is major reason why Mac sets-up the way he does ...
Lower hands brings in this distribution of mass along the adjustable radius where as raised hands moves this distribution of mass further out and its moment of inertia....Affecting the Moment Arm....
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
Has he not located the Turned Shoulder Plane with both the Club and his hands in Frame #4???...Perhaps I'm not reading your point correctly!!!! He just locates the Turned Shoulder Plane as a result of over-lengthening his stroke via a double shift...If he hits Cut shots I've seen him use Single Shift...rather than the pics posted here...I'll try to post some different pics of him using a different procedure....For Comparison!!!
I think the primary benefit is Maximum participation and Range of Motion of the Power Package Components are utlized which gives perhaps better performance characteristics of the other Plane Angles and their Variations...
Your comment from an earlier post "not on-plane but...Parallel to the Elbow Plane" I think is sufficient for me at this time. I can't however read much encouragement for turning off plane in Mr. Kelley's 10-13-B/C comments. Of course, there is ample support among prominent instructors and players for a shoulder turn that extends beyond the plane line and for different combinations of up and down shaft planes. It would be interesting to know if Mac reaches the TSP by default or intent.... does he think in terms of having the lead arm and shaft at the top on/parallel to the plane the shoulderS turn on, or on "reaching the TSP."
DRW
Mac likes to have the left arm on the same plane as the shoulder plane...in his words....Does this mean Turned Shoulder Plane? It does mean in his quantitative analysis for example ...that if the Shoulder Plane is 40-45 degrees to the ground...he would prefer the Left Arm to be the same....or whatever the intended model is because the #'s are different for different shot shapes and intentions....of which I'm not going to go into detail because it's way to technical for this arena.
