Who is the best BALLSTRIKER YOU have ever SEEN, (excluding YOURSELF)? This question was recently asked to a well known tour player. He thought... then gave two names. V.J. and Freddy. I think in his case, the question was actually the best he had played with, but we will go with SEEN.
After we get a list, maybe we can try to figure out WHY these guys, or gals strike it so well.
1964, tweleve yrs old...Sam Snead and Gary Player played an 18 hole exhibition at my home course...my dad was the clubpro but I'd never seen or heard a ball hit like Snead...trajectory was perfect, a little draw with the old balata and wood...Snead shot 65 and made no putts, Player a smooth 66...these guys had never seen this little west texas track before...amazing...the next yr we had Palmer and Nicklaus...wasn't the same although Nicklaus hit long irons higher than I could even imagine.... which didn't help in that dust storm we were having ...Palmer 76, Nicklaus 74...
Seen many of the greats through the years but Snead was something else...so solid/smoooth
The list so far...
Vijay Singh
Fred Couples
Tom Weiskopf
Lee Trevino
Wayne DeFrancesco
Ben Hogan
Mac O'Grady
Tiger Woods
Keith Clearwater
Neal Lancaster
Charles Howell III
Steve Elkington
Elliot Gealy
Mike Bennett
Bobby Clampett
Annika Sorenstam
Christian Cleaver
Tom Watson
Mark Calcaveccia
Greg Norman
Ernie Els
Jamie Hallet
Ted Fort
Lynn Blake
Jack Nicklaus
Tom Tomasello
Matthew Goggin
Nick Price
Miller Barber
Orville Moody
Davis Love
Padraig Harrington
Johnny Miller
Byron Nelson
David Toms
Tom Bartlett
Sam Snead
Gary Player
Chip Beck
Several of these were mentioned more than once. Lee Trevino, I believe has been mentioned the most so far.
Originally Posted by lagster
The list so far...
Vijay Singh
Fred Couples
Tom Weiskopf
Lee Trevino
Wayne DeFrancesco
Ben Hogan
Mac O'Grady
Tiger Woods
Keith Clearwater
Neal Lancaster
Charles Howell III
Steve Elkington
Elliot Gealy
Mike Bennett
Bobby Clampett
Annika Sorenstam
Christian Cleaver
Tom Watson
Mark Calcaveccia
Greg Norman
Ernie Els
Jamie Hallet
Ted Fort
Lynn Blake
Jack Nicklaus
Tom Tomasello
Matthew Goggin
Nick Price
Miller Barber
Orville Moody
Davis Love
Padraig Harrington
Johnny Miller
Byron Nelson
David Toms
Tom Bartlett
Sam Snead
Gary Player
Chip Beck
Several of these were mentioned more than once. Lee Trevino, I believe has been mentioned the most so far.
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OK... add Jay Haas, Bruce Lietzke, George Knudson, Mickey Wright, and Moe Norman.
What are the SAMENESSES in these players?
i actually looked at all the stats once from players from the last twenty years and lietzke kept popping up. his ballstriking stats was always very high. and the cool thing was he never practiced what a lucky fellow
Originally Posted by lagster
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OK... add Jay Haas, Bruce Lietzke, George Knudson, Mickey Wright, and Moe Norman.
What are the SAMENESSES in these players?
They all have 24 Components!
Originally Posted by tongzilla
They all have 24 Components!
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24 COMPONENTS... and most, if not all, have BALANCE, are on PLANE, at least through around release point(9-2-9)to separation, and have CLUBHEAD LAG to some extent.
Anything else?
Originally Posted by lagster
The list so far...
Vijay Singh
Fred Couples
Tom Weiskopf
Lee Trevino
Wayne DeFrancesco
Ben Hogan
Mac O'Grady
Tiger Woods
Keith Clearwater
Neal Lancaster
Charles Howell III
Steve Elkington
Elliot Gealy
Mike Bennett
Bobby Clampett
Annika Sorenstam
Christian Cleaver
Tom Watson
Mark Calcaveccia
Greg Norman
Ernie Els
Jamie Hallet
Ted Fort
Lynn Blake
Jack Nicklaus
Tom Tomasello
Matthew Goggin
Nick Price
Miller Barber
Orville Moody
Davis Love
Padraig Harrington
Johnny Miller
Byron Nelson
David Toms
Tom Bartlett
Sam Snead
Gary Player
Chip Beck
Several of these were mentioned more than once. Lee Trevino, I believe has been mentioned the most so far.
Nice job compiling the list Lagster!!!
I'd like to hear from some of the...uh hum...older folks. Those that have seen both Trevino and Hogan. I only have tape and have not had the privelege to see either live. Anyone?
Originally Posted by denny.
Haas and Lietzke had their long careers because of their ability to hit the sweet spot every day for over 40 years each.
Hogan is #1. Knudson and Micky Wright and Moe Norman should get some votes.
I sure wish I had seen them in person! (which was why I didn't include them in my list)
Jamie Hullet (not Hallet) - LPGA player - VJ if you ever get the chance, your mastery of putting is very much needed in her case!
As to what they have in common...
Balance, Plane - and a good Grip for the motion they make.
Originally Posted by phillygolf
Nice job compiling the list Lagster!!!
I'd like to hear from some of the...uh hum...older folks. Those that have seen both Trevino and Hogan. I only have tape and have not had the privelege to see either live. Anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
I've seen Trevino several times. All on the Senior Tour.
I saw him hit a drive that was as straight as an arrow, fairly low, and fairly long. He goes through that little routine... then that ball tears out of there. I know a former tour player that used to play practice rounds with Trevino. He said he was by far the best ball striker.
I know a tour player from the 50's and 60's that played with Hogan. He said the SOUND he produced from striking the ball was quite unique. Snead did not like to play with him, because his tempo(Hogan's) bothered Sam.
Originally Posted by lagster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Snead did not like to play with him, because his tempo(Hogan's) bothered Sam.
Really? That's funny....ya they are kinda polar opposites tho.
I don't get how Hogan's swing can even work with his fast tempo.
I mean....he's a Swinger right? I dunno....I tend to fall towards the slow side I guess....doesn't work when I Swing fast like that.
And the "Best Ball Striker" does what better?
Would a 'best ball striker' in say Hogan or Jack's day (that is two eras, no?) be different in today's era?
Lynn's impact hurts my ears. Got to worth something on the list.
Originally Posted by 6bmike
And the "Best Ball Striker" does what better?
Would a 'best ball striker' in say Hogan or Jack's day (that is two eras, no?) be different in today's era?
Lynn's impact hurts my ears. Got to worth something on the list.
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You probably have somewhat of a point about the different eras, but... players that consistently strike the ball solidly, have good trajectory control, direction control, and distance control... kind of stand out in any era.
I bet Vardon and Jones, for example, had that Good Ball Striker status also.
Gang, if you didn't get to see Moe Norman strike balls, you missed something special. I got to spend many hours with George Knudson. He was amazing, but he was a notch below Moe. Growing up in Southern Ontario being around those two was a treat. There is a reason there are hundreds of "Moe" stories. He's my #1.
I did get to follow Mike Weir on the final round at Pebble in '05. He was 7 behind the other lefty, Phil. Mike shot 67, making nothing and was the low round by 3 shots. The wind blew, the rain came down and oh, btw, they were playing at Peb from the tips. He missed one green because of a mud ball. Otherwise, it's got to be one of the finer rounds.
Duval has got to be recognized before the meltdown. The 59 at the Palmer during the Hope is as good as it gets. The course isn't as easy as TV viewers are lead to believe. I'm an old friend of Jim Furyk and Duval was his number 1 back in the day. Funny, Furyk is right up there now too!
Great question!!!!!!
The best I have ever witnessed as far as an entire round was my old teacher Wayne Defrancesco while caddying for him in an Open qualifier. 7200 yards or so, he hit 16 greens - other 2 were on the fringe...including the stick on a par 3 from 240. Amazing.
As far as on tour - I agree. Freddie seems to hit every shot so pure...and Vijay is as good as it gets. Els was pretty damn impressive too. The straightest I have seen is Furyk.
Hmmm...who else. I never saw Trevino but everyone raves about him and of course Clampett as well.
But would the ultimate be Hogan?
I've seen personally on the Tee of a Tour event, worked with, and/or played with: that means within 5 Clublengths and Not behind the ropes!!!
1. Mac O'Grady
2. Grant Waite
3. Tiger Woods
4. Keith Clearwater
5. Neal Lancaster
6. Charles Howell
7. Steve Elkington
8. Elliot Gealy - Hooters Tour...
9. Mike Bennett - Mac O'Grady Disciple...Teaches Elk and Shark!
10.Bobby Clampett
Clue: 8 of 10 have either TGM and or MORAD connections!!!
Annikan, which two from that group don't have TGM connections?
Tiger anyway.
At an event in person
Annika
Christian Ceavar (sp?) around '88 at John Susko Memorial Tourney
Watson at Olympic in 87 2nd round
Calc at Olympic in 87 practice round
Norman at Augusta 96, before he lost it
Tiger at Pebble
Jamie Hullet at Kingsmill 2005 (needs to learn how to putt!)
Ted Fort at OCN 2005
Lynn Blake at OCN 2005
Trevino
Nicklaus
I'd like to see David Alford in person, on tape he looks like he should be on anyones list of great strikers
Also, many folks that aren't famous, but are great strikers. A guy named 'petey' from Harding Park/SF area. Someone I suspect could have been JC Andersen (about 4 years ago, but I didn't note his name at the time).
Tiger...I think?
Charles Howell - Leadbetter....BUT his coach at OSU - Mike Holder is a huge TGM guy....knows his stuff wonder why he was one of if not the best golf coaches in NCAA history....I don't know if Holder had any influence on Howell when He was there at OSU...My List was strictly guys I've seen up close and personal..Of course of seen others on the Tee and inside the ropes but they were my top ten...
Surprisingly my Top Five Disappointments
1. Migel Angel Jimenez...I was working with Neal Lancaster the last year of the Michelob in Williamsburg....I was standing in front of Neal and I heard this clankin, chunkin,thinin, toein, all over the place ...saw a HUGE ponytail and a stache....Turned backed to Neal wondering who in the he77 is that ...His reply.."Ryder Cupper!!!"
2. Nick Faldo....I'm inside the ropes at the 1999 US Open with Keith Clearwater...Pinehurst N0.2 hole #5 and Faldo is right there...I could've spit on him...but I like him to much...anyway He strikes it and it sounded like his impact was like a feather-filled pillow....well later on in the day I watched him on the range when Keith wasnt paying attention and he's hitting "no where" for a guy of such size... very little compresion...very sweepy!!! So I was let down ...I expected more out of the former #1 in the world
3. Curtis Strange...Met him at Williamsburg...Very nice guy...swing looked nice...NO POP...I'm wondering how did this guy win 2 US Opens...then he started hitting "pancake flop shots" with a Vokey 260.04 with the .04 ground completely off to what looked like a -.04...and these balls are landing like he's tossing flapjacks on the practice green off of hardpan...Now I know why...he's not afraid to miss!!!Anywhere
4. Pat McGowan - He's a personal friend and former student of 4 years......Rookie of the Year on the PGA Tour fresh out of BYU...I still cannot figure out how he lasted on tour as many years as he did...but get him on and around the green he is the "Master of the Vertical Hinge"!!!
5. David Branshaw....A high school friend ...college teammate...former mini-tour comrade...current Nationwide Tour Championship...a returning to the PGA TOUR for a second time...worked with David during his first year tried to get his "mess more on plane and to quiet down an over active pivot"..."He decided that it was way to much to change now since he was playing week to week....Now that I look back I understand...but from my friends out on the Tour they told me he was lookin for something ...anything to get him through week to week...His action in high school was pure....College very solid ...on tour...action not very good ...BUT 15 years on the mini-tours taught him ...that the intangibles combined with great putting, good iron play, and a steady driver is more important than a pretty swing...Good Luck David...Me and My family always pull for you..keep it up!!!
So my Top Ten best...and my Top Five Disappointments
