End vs Top for Swingers

mattsdad
I don't have the book at hand for reference (shame!) but I believe 12-2 recommends Assembly point for Swingers as End. What advantages are offered over stopping at Top? It seems to me that using Top Arc and Straight Line Delivery Path is more complicated than just the Straight Line path available if one stopped at Top.

I recall there is a comment by Yoda in one of the videos that he goes to End when Swinging to differentiate the feelings between Swinging and Hitting. However, if one is primarily or only a Swinger, is there another advantage to going to End?

TIA

RT
jim_0068
the longer the backstroke, the more potential you have to for maximum centrifugal force.
Mathew
The difference is so you can load the lag pressure against the first knuckle by going to the end of the backstroke ready to drag that pressure by the pivot. The hitter loads directly against pp3, ready to drive directly by the thrusting of hit right triceps.
comdpa
Originally Posted by mattsdad I don't have the book at hand for reference (shame!) but I believe 12-2 recommends Assembly point for Swingers as End. What advantages are offered over stopping at Top? It seems to me that using Top Arc and Straight Line Delivery Path is more complicated than just the Straight Line path available if one stopped at Top.

I recall there is a comment by Yoda in one of the videos that he goes to End when Swinging to differentiate the feelings between Swinging and Hitting. However, if one is primarily or only a Swinger, is there another advantage to going to End?

TIA

RT
If anything, going to the End position necessitates that the hands have to go back to the right shoulder before going down plane together - an extra move - top arc and straight line.

From a Top position all that is needed is a straight line delivery.

The less you do in the golf swing, the better. Less is more, more is less.
mattsdad
Thanks to all for the replies.

To comdpa: I agree that less may be better, which is why I wondered why Homer recommended End as the Assembly Point.
EdZ
Originally Posted by mattsdad Thanks to all for the replies.

To comdpa: I agree that less may be better, which is why I wondered why Homer recommended End as the Assembly Point.

To load the left wrist, by bending the right elbow, while keeping the right wrist from cocking.

If you only go to 'top', you either have not loaded the left wrist as much as you could, or you have cocked your right wrist to do it incorrectly.

You've got to get the thumb 'under' the shaft.
comdpa
Originally Posted by mattsdad Thanks to all for the replies.

To comdpa: I agree that less may be better, which is why I wondered why Homer recommended End as the Assembly Point.
You can find the answer to your question in 6-C-2-D and in 6-B-1-D, if you apply Extensor Action, its tough to get past the Top position.

I will admit, there are stuff in the book that I don't yet fully comprehend.

But we need to let those things that are easily understood take precedence over the obscure.

Besides the point you raised, there are some other issues that are obscure too:

In 7-9, 10-9-B, Impact address is mentioned as "useful" for hitters, yet in 12-1-0, why is standard address listed?

In 12-2-0, why is it a snap load then a non-auto sweep release? Should they not be the same as in snap with snap or sweep with sweep?

Homer is not around that we can ask him, but like I mentioned above, let the clear and obvious preside over the obscure.

And besides, this forum seems to be doing pretty ok...haha
Yoda
Originally Posted by comdpa
In 7-9, 10-9-B, Impact address is mentioned as "useful" for hitters, yet in 12-1-0, why is standard address listed?

In 12-2-0, why is it a snap load then a non-auto sweep release? Should they not be the same as in snap with snap or sweep with sweep?
Justin,

1. The Standard Address for Hitters (12-1-0) is used for two reasons. First, it facilitates moving between the Hitting and Swinging (12-2-0) Basic Patterns. Second, it facilitates the Hitter's Angle of Approach procedure because the Right Forearm and the Shaft are pointing at nearly the same place on the Delivery Line. A Fix alignment of the Right Forearm (pointing at a 10-5-E Delivery Line) is really 'out of whack' with the Target Line, and this makes the alignment difficult for beginning Hitters. Nevertheless, Homer Kelley felt that ultimately, in the hands of the Hitting Master, the Impact Address position was preferred.

2. Remember, no matter what Release Type and Release Point are employed, the Swinger's Snap Load overcomes the initial inertia of the Clubhead at the Top and Loads the Lag. And it is done by the Pivot, not the Hands. This 'Instant Acceleration' (10-19-C) is very desirable for the Swinger and sets up the entire Centrifugal Downstroke Release Sequence (6-M-1). Longer term, the Swinger will almost certainly customize the Pattern to incorporate first, the Non-Automatic Snap Release and later, the Automatic Snap Release. The Non-Auto Sweep variation is listed in the Basic Pattern as the first step -- maximum conscious control -- on the road to mastery of the more sophisticated Snap Releases.
jim_0068
Originally Posted by comdpa You can find the answer to your question in 6-C-2-D and in 6-B-1-D, if you apply Extensor Action, its tough to get past the Top position.
Maybe if you are inflexible. If you have any type of flexibility it really isn't that hard.
cometgolfer
In light of watching the Hull/Blake video that just went up I'd like to revisit this "end vs top" discussion. Lynn and Jeff talk about the almost imperceptible difference in distance that can be achieved with a properly executed Acquired Motion versus a Total Motion swing. Seems like VJ talked about that in one of his vids as well.

If that's the case, is the added motion of going to End versus Top on the backswing for a Swinger advantageous?

Thanks,

CG
bambam
Originally Posted by cometgolfer In light of watching the Hull/Blake video that just went up I'd like to revisit this "end vs top" discussion. Lynn and Jeff talk about the almost imperceptible difference in distance that can be achieved with a properly executed Basic Motion versus a Total Motion swing. Seems like VJ talked about that in one of his vids as well.

If that's the case, is the added motion of going to End versus Top on the backswing for a Swinger advantageous?

Thanks,

CG
I've been experimenting with this at the range after watching the videos. Applying the same lag pressure, the difference between my punch and when I go to the top is at most 1 club (depending on ball position and trajectory). For me, there is no discernable distance difference between end vs. top; if anything I hit it consistently purer, straighter, further and with better trajectory and sizzle when I stop at the top.

So why go to the end??
cometgolfer
Originally Posted by bambam I've been experimenting with this at the range after watching the videos. Applying the same lag pressure, the difference between my punch and when I go to the top is at most 1 club (depending on ball position and trajectory). For me, there is no discernable distance difference between end vs. top; if anything I hit it consistently purer, straighter, further and with better trajectory and sizzle when I stop at the top.

So why go to the end??
Would love to hear some more input on this as well. BTW - I meant Acquired Motion, not Basic Motion.

CG
12 piece bucket
Originally Posted by bambam I've been experimenting with this at the range after watching the videos. Applying the same lag pressure, the difference between my punch and when I go to the top is at most 1 club (depending on ball position and trajectory). For me, there is no discernable distance difference between end vs. top; if anything I hit it consistently purer, straighter, further and with better trajectory and sizzle when I stop at the top.

So why go to the end??
could have something to do with rotating the lag pressure point. remember #3 supports the secondary lever in swinging.