Hands Too Far Forward

Can you have your hands too far forward at impact? What are the possible pitfalls of being in such a position?

Originally Posted by Bigwill Can you have your hands too far forward at impact? What are the possible pitfalls of being in such a position?

Geometrically I'd say yes you can have them too far forward. According to one of the 1L principles, no part of the lever assembly should move forward independently. Usually, this is the club head moving forward independently which equals throwaway, but I would think it also possible that the arms could move forward independently giving an arched left wrist. This would also violate the principle, and disrupt the flying wedges, although the consequences would be less severe than with clubhead throwaway.

Pitfalls: An arched left wrist produces push shot tendencies according to the book. Lowpoint moves forward. The left wrist becomes the fulcrum of the lever, shortening swing radius (or at least that's what I've heard!). I'm sure all these could probably be compensated for however, if you knew what you were doing.

Chris

Thanks, Chris. So much is discussed about throwaway/leakage with the left wrist bending and the clubhead moving ahead of the hands, that I was curious about the other side of the spectrum.

Originally Posted by Bigwill Can you have your hands too far forward at impact? What are the possible pitfalls of being in such a position?

Three problems that I can think of:

1. Arching the Left Wrist opens the Clubface. So if you set up your Alignments with a Flat Left Wrist, and at Impact you have a Arched Left Wrist, the Clubface will be more open and the Ball will start Right. There are two ways to correct this:

a) set up your Alignments at Impact Fix with an Arched Left Wrist.
b) set up at Fix with a Flat Left Wrist and increase the Roll of your Left Hand/Arm in order to have the Clubface square by Separation.

2. Both Bending and Arching the Left Wrist shorten the radius of the Stroke, and therefore reduce Clubhead speed. The radius is the distance from the Left Shoulder to the Clubhead. For example, if you shorten the radius by an inch because of Bending or Arching your Left Wrist, that is effectively the same as reducing the lengths of your Clubshafts by an inch (i.e. putting a nine iron-length Clubshaft into a seven iron Clubhead). You maximize radius with a straight Left Arm and a Flat Left Wrist.

3. Both Arching and Bending your Left Wrist change the Fulcrum and thus, the Low Point of the Stroke. When your Left Wrist is Flat, the Left Shoulder is both the Fulcrum and Low Point; when your Left Wrist is Arched, it becomes both Fulcrum and Low Point, and causes the Low Point to move forward of the Left Shoulder (a Bent Left Wrist causes the Low Point to move aft of the Left Shoulder).

Note: I should've read CNZ's post before I posted. He pretty much answered the question.

Originally Posted by galopin Three problems that I can think of:

1. Arching the Left Wrist opens the Clubface. So if you set up your Alignments with a Flat Left Wrist, and at Impact you have a Arched Left Wrist, the Clubface will be more open and the Ball will start Right. There are two ways to correct this:

a) set up your Alignments at Impact Fix with an Arched Left Wrist.
b) set up at Fix with a Flat Left Wrist and increase the Roll of your Left Hand/Arm in order to have the Clubface square by Separation.

2. Both Bending and Arching the Left Wrist shorten the radius of the Stroke, and therefore reduce Clubhead speed. The radius is the distance from the Left Shoulder to the Clubhead. For example, if you shorten the radius by an inch because of Bending or Arching your Left Wrist, that is effectively the same as reducing the lengths of your Clubshafts by an inch (i.e. putting a nine iron-length Clubshaft into a seven iron Clubhead). You maximize radius with a straight Left Arm and a Flat Left Wrist.

3. Both Arching and Bending your Left Wrist change the Fulcrum and thus, the Low Point of the Stroke. When your Left Wrist is Flat, the Left Shoulder is both the Fulcrum and Low Point; when your Left Wrist is Arched, it becomes both Fulcrum and Low Point, and causes the Low Point to move forward of the Left Shoulder (a Bent Left Wrist causes the Low Point to move aft of the Left Shoulder).

Note: I should've read CNZ's post before I posted. He pretty much answered the question.

I'm glad you did post. The statment about the left shoulder being both the low point and fulcrum was a bell ringer for me. More work to be done...

Originally Posted by Bigwill I'm glad you did post. The statment about the left shoulder being both the low point and fulcrum was a bell ringer for me. More work to be done...

Remember though that this is when the Left Wrist is Flat. When the Left Wrist Bends or Arches, the Left Wrist becomes both Fulcrum and Low Point.

This whole discussion also highlights the importance of the Stationary Head, because as the Head moves laterally, the Left Shoulder, and thus Low Point move with it. So if your Head at Impact is behind its Impact Fix position, both your Left Shoulder and Low Point will be behind their Impact Fix position (if you have a Flat or Bent Left Wrist). This can cause all sorts of trouble, quite often resulting in a Bent Plane Line which causes divots to go to the left of the Plane Line, and in turn, Steering/"chicken winging".

One way to compensate for a Head and Left Shoulder that are behind their Fix positions at Impact is to Arch the Left Wrist. Again, by Arching the Left Wrist, the Left Wrist becomes the Fulcrum, and the Low Point moves ahead of the Left Shoulder. Hopefully, the new Impact Low Point of the Arched Left Wrist is the same as the old Impact Fix Low Point of the Flat Left Wrist and Left Shoulder.

Originally Posted by galopin Three problems that I can think of:

1. Arching the Left Wrist opens the Clubface. So if you set up your Alignments with a Flat Left Wrist, and at Impact you have a Arched Left Wrist, the Clubface will be more open and the Ball will start Right. There are two ways to correct this:

a) set up your Alignments at Impact Fix with an Arched Left Wrist.
b) set up at Fix with a Flat Left Wrist and increase the Roll of your Left Hand/Arm in order to have the Clubface square by Separation.

2. Both Bending and Arching the Left Wrist shorten the radius of the Stroke, and therefore reduce Clubhead speed. The radius is the distance from the Left Shoulder to the Clubhead. For example, if you shorten the radius by an inch because of Bending or Arching your Left Wrist, that is effectively the same as reducing the lengths of your Clubshafts by an inch (i.e. putting a nine iron-length Clubshaft into a seven iron Clubhead). You maximize radius with a straight Left Arm and a Flat Left Wrist.

3. Both Arching and Bending your Left Wrist change the Fulcrum and thus, the Low Point of the Stroke. When your Left Wrist is Flat, the Left Shoulder is both the Fulcrum and Low Point; when your Left Wrist is Arched, it becomes both Fulcrum and Low Point, and causes the Low Point to move forward of the Left Shoulder (a Bent Left Wrist causes the Low Point to move aft of the Left Shoulder).

Note: I should've read CNZ's post before I posted. He pretty much answered the question.

Chris and galopin,

Very good posts . . . How do you get un-ARCHED?

thanks!

B

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket Chris and galopin,

Very good posts . . . How do you get un-ARCHED?

thanks!

B

Bucket,

My best wild guess would be to find where in the Stroke that you Arch the Left Wrist (at Impact Fix? Start Up? Back Stroke? Release Point? Someplace else?).

When you hit a chip, and take the Stroke to Follow-Through, is your Left Wrist Arched or Flat? If it's Arched, you should practice hitting chips and make sure that your Left Wrist is Flat from Address* to the end of the Back Stroke (for a chip) to Follow- Through. Keep in mind that when the Left Wrist is Flat, the Clubshaft is in-line with the Left Arm (from the front view facing the Player). So hold your finish at Follow-Through and check for your Flat Left Wrist and an in-line Clubshaft.

Then do the same for pitches...that is, check to see what Left Wrist Alignment you have at Follow-Through. Then do the same thing for full shots...take them to Follow-Through, hold this position, and check your Alignments.

I don't see a need to go any farther than Follow Through, because after Follow Through, you Swivel, and the Left Wrist moves from Flat to Bent (as the Right Wrist moves from Bent to Flat) in order to keep the Clubface on Plane.

Good luck.


*If you're hitting Swinging chips/pitches/fullshots, you can start from a Bent Left Wrist at Adjusted Address, but check for a Flat Left Wrist at the end of the chip/pitch/full shot Back Stroke.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket Chris and galopin,

Very good posts . . . How do you get un-ARCHED?

thanks!

B

Bucket,

I just thought of something that I didn't mention in my previous reply to you. As I said above, Bending and Arching the Left Wrist shortens the radius of the Stroke. One reason why you may be Arching your Left Wrist is to shorten your Stroke's radius in order to compensate for Bobbing--dipping your Head below where it was at Impact Fix.

Originally Posted by galopin Bucket,

I just thought of something that I didn't mention in my previous reply to you. As I said above, Bending and Arching the Left Wrist shortens the radius of the Stroke. One reason why you may be Arching your Left Wrist is to shorten your Stroke's radius in order to compensate for Bobbing--dipping your Head below where it was at Impact Fix.

Hadn't thought of the that one! Thanks for all the great input!