Ah-Ha Moment 0001-2006

Today, after the better part of 2005 banging the head against the wall, I think I get it.

What I get is - YOU TRACE THE IMPACT PLANE LINE....

You don't trace the Plane Line......

You don't trace the Target Line (unless this is the Impact Plane Line).

I'll bite:

how is the impact plane line different than the normal plane line?

You can Trace either the Impact Point Plane Line or Low Point Plane Line with your Right Forearm. They produce exactly the same results.

Originally Posted by tongzilla You can Trace either the Impact Point Plane Line or Low Point Plane Line with your Right Forearm. They produce exactly the same results.

Those are different from the that of the plane line.

Look at 2-C-1.

I realize Yoda says you can trace the Low Point Plane Line, but I would submit that this trace would put you to the outside of the point of impact which doesn't seem to be a desireable thing at least when at first mastering this.

Plane Line definition, see 10-5. Baseline of the Incline Plane is the plane line which is not as shown in 10-5 the other lines.

Simply put starting at the feet looking down with the ball located behind the low point you have
a. Stance Line
b. Plane Line
c. Impact Line
d. Line of Flight
e. Low Point Line

Originally Posted by tongzilla You can Trace either the Impact Point Plane Line or Low Point Plane Line with your Right Forearm. They produce exactly the same results.

...because they lie on the same plane.

Originally Posted by Yoda Remember, Martee, don't confuse the Clubshaft's Impact Plane Line with the Sweetspot's Impact Plane Line. These are quite different!

I sense you are about to have a major "Aha!" moment.

Actually for 15 months I have on and off worked on one problem. I understood from you your descriptions of these lines.

We had a short discussion regarding Clubshaft's Plane and the Sweetspot's Impact Line. Reference Diag 1-L and 2-C-1#1.

I made the statement that the sweetspot plane will always be flatter (smaller angle) than the clubshaft plane line (the inclined plane). You told me that I still hadn't grasped it or something to that effect.

Along with this quest of mine is to accurately define the sweetspot plane and clarification of what is meant it goes throug PP#3. The Longitudal center of gravity, the line as Homer references is quite valid, but the description that it runs through PP#3 is incidental when stated it must be the aft of the shaft.

Sorry off topic.

Clearly looking at 2-C-1#1 you can see that sweetspot plane must be by defintion flatter.

The order I gave the lines in stands and is supported by Homer's definitions (10-5 and 2-C-1#1).

Part of where I am going with my quest is to validate the Full Plane Board. For a shaft to ride the surface, the Inclined Plane and the fact that the Sweetspot plane is flatter gives me a fuzzy picture.

The Impact Line and Low Point Line do reside on the plane, the sweetspot plane. Anytime the ball is not at the Low Point, then these two line when projected on the surface will have separation (a visual thing) and the amount of separation is a function of the ball distance from low point. The further back the ball is the wider the lines appear. Thus my statement regarding tracing it may not be adviseable until the forearm move is mastered using the Impact Line.

Given a square stance, the inclined plane line is parallel to the Impact line, to the inside and created by a different angle. The distance they are separated is determined by the distance between the hosel and sweetspot.

One of my questions I am chasing is that to draw lines on photos and then attempt to use the clubshaft in reference to the lines seems to be misleading since unelss you are looking face on to the club (facing the toe and looking back to the shaft) you will not be monitoring the sweetspot plane/angle.

Don't know if all this makes sense to you, I am still working on the details to get diagrams to validate. This includes Homers quick test for being on plane (parallel to the line or low end pointing to it and the low end needs to be the sweetspot or sweetspot line extension, I think)

I could go into more depth, but this is already probably too much at this time.

But the concept of tracing the sweetspot plane line makes 100% more cents than tracing the plane line.

Yup, finally got it. Only took, well lets not go into that.

After talking with a number of people over the years, Phd's included, I finally get it.

1. The Sweetspot Plane is something you FEEL that you are swing on.

2. The Sweetspot Plane is not something you can draw on a picture, it is FEEL.

3. The True Plane Angle should be defined and Impact and then applied backward to photo when analyzing them.

4. The Clubshaft Angle is set at Impact Fix is the most likely and accurate line you can identify for see the Inclined Plane.

5. All of this HAS TO BE TRUE, else Homer's Plastic Plane as shown in all the photos would be invalid.

6. 10-5 supports this.

7. 2-F supports this in the definition of On Plane.

The Sweetspot Plane is just a Feel. Plane Boards wouldn't work, laser devices attached to the golf club shaft would be invalid.

That is not to say you can't identify it, but

a. It will always be flatter than the clubshaft plane
b. It is dynamic in that as the clubshaft is move to this plane (see 2-F description of On Plane) it will be changing

and I could go on...

Now if you all are going to say no to this, then I would like to see a series of pictures of a golfer is swinging on the sweetspot plane and at impact is in that position as well including showing that the Forearm is on plane while the clubshaft is not.. Cause you can't have a clubshaft on plane, a forearm on plane and call that the sweetspot plane and state that the clubshaft plane (defined by the clubshaft angle at impact or lie depending upon setup).

I wonder how many people really realize all the lines they are drawing are not the sweetspot plane.

Even Homer addressed part of the concern regarding lie angle in 7-6.

Feel vs Mechanical.....

Easy Martee!

Afterall, it's only a few degrees of difference. Good enough for me But I always know which one I'm feeling...

Originally Posted by tongzilla Easy Martee!

Afterall, it's only a few degrees of difference. Good enough for me But I always know which one I'm feeling...

Not very percise, not very TGM IMO. It does have impacts on analysis of the golf stroke of a golfer. I think it is important else I don't believe Homer would have included it in the book. Alignments...