Vijay's 'Wrong' Move -- the Infamous Flat Right Wrist

Originally posted by matt

Vijay makes an odd move indeed.

The crucial point in your post - a FLAT LEFT WRIST is the imperative, not a bent right wrist. Now normally these go hand in hand. That is, when you have a flat left wrist your right wrist is bent, and vice versa. Vijay kind of lets his right hand come off the club and his right wrist flattens a little. But his left wrist is STILL FLAT. And that's all the matters.

Check it out here: http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/80095/1/2785334

Sure his right wrist is flattening...but his left wrist is holding steady and not bending!

[Bold by Yoda.]
I think we can all agree that you don't win nine tournaments on the toughest professional tour in the world -- not to mention over ten million dollars! -- by doing it wrong! So what is Vijay doing right?

For starters, Matt has it nailed: The First Imperative is the Flat Left Wrist. The Sweetspot is never permitted to pass the Hands during the Impact Interval (1-L-#8 ). It is the Number One Alignment in G.O.L.F., and nobody does it better than Vijay (despite the unique simultaneous Flattening of his Right Wrist).

The Second Imperative is the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point. A glance at any of Vijay's Impact photos will prove that, despite his unusual Flat Right Wrist alignment, the #3 Pressure Point (Right Forefinger) is dead behind the Shaft and definitely doing its job. Importantly, it is getting a lot of support from its most faithful ally...the On Plane Right Forearm.

Finally, the Third Imperative is Tracing the Straight Plane Line. This conscious direction of the On Plane Clubhead Lag Pressure through Impact is the responsibility of the #3 Pressure Point and Right Forearm. You can rest assured that Vijay is taking care of business here because he spends hours every week -- even at his level -- making that happen. Homer Kelley called the Inclined Plane the "heart and soul of the Golf Swing." And this last Imperative -- maintaining its Straight Line Baseline through Impact -- is what Vijay's famous practice routine is all about.

You want to 'be like Mike?' Then do what 'Mike' does: Establish the Plane Line by putting two shafts on the ground a few inches apart and aligned to the Target. Then stick another in the ground behind you to establish the Plane Angle. Finally, position a water bottle just in front and to the right of the Ball (which is located between the two shafts on the ground). This is your visual 'Gateway to Golfing Perfection' through which the Arc of Approach -- the curved path of the Clubhead Blur through Impact -- must pass. Your mission is to swing Through the Ball -- and through this 'mine field' -- without disturbing any of the deliberately placed obstructions.

Do that a couple of times a week for a few weeks and watch those wayward shots 'get religion!'
Originally Posted by Yoda Establish the Plane Line by putting two shafts on the ground a few inches apart and aligned to the Target. Then stick another in the ground behind you to establish the Plane Angle. Finally, position a water bottle just in front and to the right of the Ball (which is located between the two shafts on the ground). This is your visual 'Gateway to Golfing Perfection' through which the Arc of Approach -- the curved path of the Clubhead Blur through Impact -- must pass. Your mission is to swing Through the Ball -- and through this 'mine field' -- without disturbing any of the deliberately placed obstructions.
Thats a great explanation. Still I do not fully understand the positioning of the two first shafts and how that "Gateway" appears. I'd be very grateful if someone would be able to provide a link to a photo of the entire setup.
He usually uses his speedstik for an aiming aid. He puts it in front of his feet to aim at the target.

He then uses some other straight bar and puts it outside the ball and this represents the plane line.

He then puts the ball in the middle.

then he puts the water bottle to the northwest corner of the ball outside the straight bar acting as his plane line.

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The idea is to hit the ball without distrubing either "gate" this means you are coming in correctly on the inside path and going back inside and up on the correct path.

The water bottle is there so he doesn't "over do it" and goes too much inside out. If he does, with his overrolling problem is what gives Veej the big ole' hooker.

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All of the above is why all of Vj's divots are almost perfectly straight or even curving a little to the left.

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One last note...Phil M is similar in his left wrist is flattening as well (remember he's a lefty so our right is his left). However i would say Phil's left wrist is flat while VJ's is actually arching through impact.
Hope no one got confused on that one!
Thanks! Now I get it. One final thing: I never really understood how he positions the leaning "plane angle stick" behind him.

How does he make sure that he does not catch it on the downswing? He'd make a mess if he did. Maybe he has good-enough margin between the shaft and the plane - or its long enough that his plane-shift will end up well down the shaft - ensuring that he can not catch it.
Originally Posted by stimpson Thanks! Now I get it. One final thing: I never really understood how he positions the leaning "plane angle stick" behind him.

How does he make sure that he does not catch it on the downswing? He'd make a mess if he did. Maybe he has good-enough margin between the shaft and the plane - or its long enough that his plane-shift will end up well down the shaft - ensuring that he can not catch it.
mac uses this drill to help your takeaway i hit shots with it often, the plane angle shaft that is. all you do is stick the shaft in the ground on your plane line at the same angle your club is at at address about 2 feet behind the ball. i actually hit it on the backswing because i take it away on the hands plane but on the downswing i miss it by 4 to 5 inches. if you look at alot of video youll notice almost every one except hogans shaft raises 5to 12 degrees from address to impact thats why you dont hit on downswing.
That photo should be banned from this forum! Not only does he not have the "frozen bent" right wrist, but, he also clearly isn't using extensor action.
VJ's Actual Stuff...2004 Tour Championship...

Originally Posted by annikan skywalker VJ's Actual Stuff...2004 Tour Championship...

hey annikan with that water bottle there he must be doing cp if he cf it he would hit it?
Thanks, bambam!
Originally Posted by stimpson Thanks! Now I get it. One final thing: I never really understood how he positions the leaning "plane angle stick" behind him.

How does he make sure that he does not catch it on the downswing? He'd make a mess if he did. Maybe he has good-enough margin between the shaft and the plane - or its long enough that his plane-shift will end up well down the shaft - ensuring that he can not catch it.
It just looks close to him because of the camera angle...kinda like when an instructor is 5 feet behind the golfer but when a camera is on him it looks like he is 2" away and is going to get smacked dead square in the face.

The shaft is place well outside his swing, its there for a reference
Also, as Yoda pointed out to me once before, since Vijay is a Swinger, he will not use Pressure Point #1, so it's not a concern if the cup of his Right Hand comes off his left thumb.
As a sports photographer let me just say this- any picture of VJ with his right hand coming off the club will always be chosen by an editor. Watch VJ on TV when he is in the last group and you may not see that right hand leave the club even once. He does this far less then people think.

And in the pictures when he does- that right hand is still behind the shaft.
Here's another angle just after impact:

Check this OUT!!!!

NO WONDER he has to "hit a lot of balls"...

Would you teach this to your child....I won't even let my 18 month old daughter see this "XXX-rated stuff"...At least she knows how to paddle-wheel the "Right - Forearm Flyin Wedge"...

He's figured someting out I never could....Make a lotta $$$$$





Club looks a little under here....then the Right elbow can't clear the right hip....so what happens next....Roundhousing???? is his forearm on-plane at impact or above??? My forecast....ABOVE!!!

BTW ...my opinion for the right hand off the club ..is he used to swing a little more cross-line to right field w/ a hint of throwaway...now swings more on-line and has never re-educated his right wrist alignments...but as you say...at least one hand is "educated"...Good for you VJ...your 1/2 way there!!!!
Why is this XXX rated now?

What's Vijay doing wrong?....errr "wrong" (lol....I mean, I'd take his wrong moves- whatever they are).
Birdie my man ....Look at the picture...

Club below plane ...right elbow to the side of the hip...tailbone movin under "early"...He's gonna toss it ...Just like the other pictures reveal...

I'll post the entire sequence later...

VJ's swing only looks good naked eye and at Address, Top, and finish...which Ironically is the 3 Stations...Impact is not a station...

BTW...it's only opinion...mine..it's XXX-rated..two thumbs down
Holy crap...that's unreal. Very strange. But why does that happen??
I think I read somewhere that he does that to keep from hooking the ball.
The strongest position for the right hand is not cupped..it is arched forward. It is also by far the quickest. It works from behind centerline.

This is what I believe is happening in VJs picture, and with other top pros as well.

This is my opinion, but if you doubt me go to "one plane swing" and look under "my over the top move from 1977" posted by moonshot.

I'm not saying it is better, I just think better players intuitvely understand it.
dp
Check it out!!!!



I don't like release,impact or follow-through intervals...looks like impact was executed with a swivel instead of a hinge action!!!!


The rest looks nice...you have nice looking swing VJ...

But those 3 frames are why you have to practice a lot...

Good Luck...Tiger is still the Best!!!!
Vijay's club isn't really off plane between release and follow through. He is just using the Elbow Plane.

Who thinks the Elbow Plane is more of a Pivot Controlled Hands procedure? (note I did not say you have to be using pivot controlled hands if you're using the elbow plane).

One thing I've always pondered about: if you're really using the Aiming Point properly, which is basically a Hands Controlled Pivot concept, why would you perform a shift on the downstroke? It's not like you're aiming your hands to shift down and then towards the ball. Aiming Point = straight line from the top to the ball. So if you're doing it properly, there shouldn't be a shift on the downstroke. Comments from anyone?
Tong ..with all due respect...

The club is below plane and pointing 10 dgrees to right field in frame #5...then all of a sudden he's pointing parallel and begining to bend it left...checkout his clubface to the plane in frame#7....He's demonstrating "bending the plane line right before our own eyes"....Besides the #3 PP, the right forearm are NOT in line with the Sweetpot at Impact Frame #6 This inside at release ...left at follow-through is the culprit to his pulls hooks when he hits it poorly...
I don't see what is really wrong. He has a bent right wrist and flat left at impact and the a full roll after. His right hand probably comes off because he rolls so hard thru and doesn't hold on with his right hand.

I don't see how you can tell from that pic if there isn't a hinge action. He's one of the best ball strikers on tour. I think I would take his action any day of the week.

PS. VJ doesn't have to practice that much to stay as good as he is. He is just a perfectionist.
Sorry....I have worked with several PGA Tour Players, LPGA Tour Players, and Champions Tour Playes...3 More made it through first stage today....All 3 have better alignments than VJ...Yes he's a great ballstriker...I still don't like his action...you can like it if you like...He just proves you don't have to swing the best to be one of the best...You can strike the ball well with a bad swing...and you can miss the ball with a great swing...As I said his 3 Stations look fine....Whenever the club is Parallel to the ground it should be parallel to the baseline (Shaft on the ground is parallel to his intended plane line...NOT THE SHAFT STUCK IN THE GROUND) his is pointing to the right at release and if the club were parallel to the ground at followthough it would be to the left....Right + Left = BENT


How would you rank these Pics??? VJ's Right Forearm points inside the PL....or above the plane angle of the shaft....Mac O'Grady is the only one that's dead on it....Close enough is only good for horseshoes and handgrenades...BTW...VJ is not even in Mac's league when it comes to "power- ball striking"....The only thing O'Grady lacked was knowing when to get out of the way of his own greatness....
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
annikan- i'm having trouble seeing the clubhead/shaft in the mac and vj pics - could u circle them (on my monitor it looks like vj's clubhead is inline w/ his hands which i suspect must not be the case given your description) ... tway (is that him pic #8 ?) appears to be parallel to the baseline, but he also appears to be going vertical - losing flex in the knees - as well or did he start w/ little or no knee flex?
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker I don't like release,impact or follow-through intervals...looks like impact was executed with a swivel instead of a hinge action!!!!


The rest looks nice...you have nice looking swing VJ...

But those 3 frames are why you have to practice a lot...

Good Luck...Tiger is still the Best!!!!
I would agree on the Swivel . . . See frame 7. Dude needs to buy some clothes that fit too.