Connection

davel
There arm numerous aids some recommended on the site that establish a tight connection of the left arm and shoulder at address. Some of them keep the elbows close together and inside the hips. This appears to help rotate the spine when using a hand controlled pivot and keep the shaft on plane. Jimmy Ballard teaching program is fundametally establihing that position at address and maintaining the triangle through out the swing. Are these aids (figure etc. just to give a feel or should there be a degree of pressure between the left arm and shoulder so that any movement of the arm turns the spine and the elbows in close to each other? Finally isn't this pressure point number 4 in TGM terms?

Dave
neil
Originally Posted by davel There arm numerous aids some recommended on the site that establish a tight connection of the left arm and shoulder at address. Some of them keep the elbows close together and inside the hips. This appears to help rotate the spine when using a hand controlled pivot and keep the shaft on plane. Jimmy Ballard teaching program is fundametally establihing that position at address and maintaining the triangle through out the swing. Are these aids (figure etc. just to give a feel or should there be a degree of pressure between the left arm and shoulder so that any movement of the arm turns the spine and the elbows in close to each other? Finally isn't this pressure point number 4 in TGM terms?

Dave
I'm not an Instructor Davel but IMO:I don't see why you need a tight connection of left arm and shoulder at address(pp#4 is left arm and chest).It is not correct to try to keep the elbows close together -certainly NOT inside the hips.PP#4 is primarily the swingers feeling of accumulator #4(master accumulator)when the turning torso pins the left arm to the the chest prior to blast off.Just hold a club whilst shifting your weight from foot to foot and turning your shuolders and you will feel it on the backswing . On the forward swing centrifugal force will throw the left arm off the chest.IMO (I would appreciate expert level help for Davel here)you should have your flying wedges intact and with right forearm tracing you will be in good shape-much better shape than trying to keep your elbows together! Davel The reason I got into TGM in the first place was because of .....comments like that .Somebody tell me of someone on tour -ANY TOUR who keeps their elbows together.I once bought a swing jacket for gods sake!!!!I speak as a paying student by the way
davel
Neil

The number of tour players who use headcovers or towels for practice to maintain the left arm connection are countless and V.J. Singh is right up there. Ben Hogan wrote that he used straps of the sort I am talking about. EdZ listed the figure 8 as his favorite training aid. There are definitely people who believe in such devices and teachers who believe in the maintenance of this connection as I believe this holds up the structure of the wedges.

By the way I would like to correct my statement about the elbows inside the hips to pointing toward the hips ala Hogan, Leadbetter, Ballard etc. That would mean from the view of the players back at address you would not be able to see the players elbows.

The fundamental question then becomes if these devices work what is the reason? Or as you believe they don't then no explanation is necessary.

Thanks for replying

Dave
neil
Originally Posted by davel Neil

The number of tour players who use headcovers or towels for practice to maintain the left arm connection are countless and V.J. Singh is right up there. Ben Hogan wrote that he used straps of the sort I am talking about. EdZ listed the figure 8 as his favorite training aid. There are definitely people who believe in such devices and teachers who believe in the maintenance of this connection as I believe this holds up the structure of the wedges.

By the way I would like to correct my statement about the elbows inside the hips to pointing toward the hips ala Hogan, Leadbetter, Ballard etc. That would mean from the view of the players back at address you would not be able to see the players elbows.

The fundamental question then becomes if these devices work what is the reason? Or as you believe they don't then no explanation is necessary.

Thanks for replying

Dave
Dave -I know about vijay ,Hogan etc and I am not trying to belittle such great players.All I know is that Hogan did not do what he wrote in the book(regarding the elbows being together).Vijay could not keep that glove /headcover there in his playing swing.That is not to say that these devices don't work .It may be a drill that exagerates a FEEL which translates into $10m a year!.I prefer the facts and i am not as good as them!
Yoda
Today I watched with my student, Ian Clark, GSEB, PGA from London, England, as the U.S. Navy's Blue Angels streaked over our Lesson Tee and Dobbins AFB in Marietta, Georgia. As they in unison first climbed skyward and then plunged toward the ground, no help was needed to keep the pilots welded to their seats. In fact, the pilots could not have separated themselves from those seats if they wanted to. The G-forces they were experiencing were far too great.

And so it is during the golfer's Start Down with the Left Arm welded across the chest by the Right Shoulder Turn Thrust (Power Accumulator #4). No headcover under the arm -- or glove or ball or towel or whatever -- is necessary to maintain Pressure Point #4 (where the Left Arm contacts the side). The leading Shoulder Turn Thrust against the Lagging Left Arm is quite enough, thank you, and there is no way the Left Arm can pull itself off the Accelerating chest.

Then, the whole purpose of this Start Down Shoulder Turn Thrust is to 'blast' the Left Arm off the chest during Release (Stage One of The Rocket) so that the Left Wristcock (Stage Two) and then the Left Hand Roll (Stage Three) can first produce and then sustain Clubhead Velocity and Effective Mass (2-M-2) into Impact. Ask Mr. Singh about this one: He attempted to harness this Rotational sequence with a golf ball under the Left Arm and missed the next several weeks of tournament play with a broken rib. He now uses a soft Cabretta leather glove high in the armpit as a gentle reminder of Pressure Point #4.

Again, no artifical devices are required, only an understanding of the Laws of Force and Motion as they apply to the Golf Stroke. As always, the answers can be found in the Principles and Procedures of The Golfing Machine. Specifically...

An understanding of Power Accumulator #4 Loading and Release and the On Plane Roll of Power Accumulator #3 (Left Arm and Clubshaft) through Impact.
tongzilla
Originally Posted by Yoda Then, the whole purpose of this Start Down Shoulder Turn Thrust is to 'blast' the Left Arm off the chest during Release ...
Great post Yoda. Would you say it is the slowing down of the Pivot that allows the Left Arm to 'blast' off the chest?
BlackjackNY
Originally Posted by neil Vijay could not keep that glove /headcover there in his playing swing.
Neil,
Not to nitpick, but Vijay is so flexible, he can keep the glove there during his entire full swing.
neil
Originally Posted by BlackjackNY Neil,
Not to nitpick, but Vijay is so flexible, he can keep the glove there during his entire full swing.
I don't know what flexibility has got to do with it(i'm still thinking about that )but I can keep it there! EASILY-until release.I'm trying to get it to drop.I cannot see how ANYONE can keep a glove there to the finish.
EdZ
Originally Posted by davel Neil

The number of tour players who use headcovers or towels for practice to maintain the left arm connection are countless and V.J. Singh is right up there. Ben Hogan wrote that he used straps of the sort I am talking about. EdZ listed the figure 8 as his favorite training aid. There are definitely people who believe in such devices and teachers who believe in the maintenance of this connection as I believe this holds up the structure of the wedges.

By the way I would like to correct my statement about the elbows inside the hips to pointing toward the hips ala Hogan, Leadbetter, Ballard etc. That would mean from the view of the players back at address you would not be able to see the players elbows.

The fundamental question then becomes if these devices work what is the reason? Or as you believe they don't then no explanation is necessary.

Thanks for replying

Dave
Elbows the same distance apart and pointed Down.

The figure 8 Strap is in effect the 'power package', the triangle. 'Connection' as it is often discussed, is a mutation of the core benefits of the strap (plane and correct clubface rate of closing - Rhythm)

The relationship between the hands and chest through impact, as a RESULT of motion, and the structure of the power package staying in place.

This has little to do with 'welding' the left arm and chest (PP#4), as Yoda describes, that is a result of motion, and trying to keep that connection is a best a huge power loss.

The 'point' is that the strap keeps the power package structure in place by defining the geometric relationship, the triangle formed by the arms and shoulder line AT BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT.

Defining the 'aiming point' in a fairly direct way, given an understanding of TGM impact alignments (left arm to shoulder line angle).

Always remember - send FORCE to both arms straight per 1-L-15

Restore that 'triangle' the strap gives you at both arms straight.
neil
Originally Posted by EdZ Elbows the same distance apart and pointed Down.

The figure 8 Strap is in effect the 'power package', the triangle. 'Connection' as it is often discussed, is a mutation of the core benefits of the strap (plane and correct clubface rate of closing - Rhythm)

The relationship between the hands and chest through impact, as a RESULT of motion, and the structure of the power package staying in place.

This has little to do with 'welding' the left arm and chest (PP#4), as Yoda describes, that is a result of motion, and trying to keep that connection is a best a huge power loss.

The 'point' is that the strap keeps the power package structure in place by defining the geometric relationship, the triangle formed by the arms and shoulder line AT BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT.

Defining the 'aiming point' in a fairly direct way, given an understanding of TGM impact alignments (left arm to shoulder line angle).

Always remember - send FORCE to both arms straight per 1-L-15

Restore that 'triangle' the strap gives you at both arms straight.
Edz, notice I did not make a comment about the strap-it does not keep the arm against the chest.I think I remember trying it and if recall correctly it will allow extensor action.Now that sounds good.