finding your first wobble point

john riegger
mr.kelly always mentions finding your first wobble point and correcting it before moving on.if you are looking for a way to find this wobble if you have any,is to drill this.get setup to hit a shot and now make you swing in slow motion.i am talking real slow like you are watching a video frame by frame.
what will this show you.first you will see that the golf swing is a hand controlled pivot.you will feel lag loading and lag thrust doing this drill.concentrate on #3 while you are doing this.also from the top work on the start down waggle in slow motion.it is a great drill for devoloping feel.
one more thing for you guys to try is to do the same slow motion drill with your putter.remember to look look to develop your feel.hope this helps you guys like it has helped me
Daryl
John,

Have you done this drill before working with LB? Do you still do this drill on occasion?

This could be a daily exercise. Slow motion swings. I'm sure a few will do if performed on a regular basis. I've read about many simple drills such as this, and, if a handful were written down and practiced daily , eventually, the gains may be substantial.

VJ Trolio would certainly approve.

Maybe it's similar to learning anything else. As learning piano, daily drills, drills and drills, scales and arpeggios’ and before ya know it, that Beethoven Sonata was pretty easy.

I’ll try it.
birdie_man
Hogan used to do it lots I think....

This is a good topic.....you need to be able to diagnose what has gone wrong when it does....and fast.....cause it can go quickly....regardless of what you know, or how good you were hittin it yesterday...

I like to start at setup.....adjust that first always. Then 3 Imparatives....

I try not to get into everything else unless neccessary....keep 3 Imp. in mind....

Then pay attention to nothing when you're actually executing....Clear Keys help me with conscious thought.

Great topic...

...

John....haven't heard from u in a while....how's she goin? How you hittin em? What are u working on?

-Paul
Yoda
Originally Posted by Daryl
John,

Have you done this drill before working with LB?
John has been for many years the student of Rob Noel, GSEM, a.k.a. Hunter on this site. We've never worked on this drill together (or anything else for that matter). Through Rob, we have become friends -- -- and he told me tonight he got this 'first wobble' idea from watching Ben Hogan go through his 'slo-mo' swings on the Coleman Estate Video (see The Gallery).

Thanks, John, for this great idea. Harvey Pennick was a big fan of slow motion swings, as was another mentor of mine, Paul Bertholy. Not to mention, of course...

Homer Kelley.
john riegger
thanks guys for the support.i have been incubating for the last 3 weeks.the egg finally cracked,and everything is starting to pour out.i have been working on my stroke pattern throughout drive to putt.trying to make them the same.i have been working on my start down waggle with both drive and putt using this slow motion drill.i am getting ready to put it too a real test i am playing 15 of the next 18 weeks.hopefully everyone will get to check it out on t.v. in the weeks to come.like lynn and i were talking tonight,i have emptied the tank on the practice tee and now i am going to just go play golf.i will be putting up daily post on what is going on with myself and the tour.stayed tuned and if anyone has any questions fire away.let me know what you guys would like to talk about and hopefully i can help.thanks go out to rob noel and to lynn blake for all there support and knowledge.i have learned more in the past 5 months than the last 35 years.keep up the great work guys and talk to you friday
Toolish
Was watching the Colin Neeman (Name ?? ) video last night and saw Yoda teach the start up with a massive pause (10 seconds), in position to allow the computer to compute...seems like a great idea, especially with slo-mo swings.

After all if we can't do it slow what chance do we have when going at 100mph+!!
Daryl
Originally Posted by john riegger thanks guys for the support.i have been incubating for the last 3 weeks.the egg finally cracked,and everything is starting to pour out.i have been working on my stroke pattern throughout drive to putt.trying to make them the same.i have been working on my start down waggle with both drive and putt using this slow motion drill.i am getting ready to put it too a real test i am playing 15 of the next 18 weeks.hopefully everyone will get to check it out on t.v. in the weeks to come.like lynn and i were talking tonight,i have emptied the tank on the practice tee and now i am going to just go play golf.i will be putting up daily post on what is going on with myself and the tour.stayed tuned and if anyone has any questions fire away.let me know what you guys would like to talk about and hopefully i can help.thanks go out to rob noel and to lynn blake for all there support and knowledge.i have learned more in the past 5 months than the last 35 years.keep up the great work guys and talk to you friday
Best of luck for you John.
drewitgolf
Originally Posted by john riegger i am getting ready to put it too a real test i am playing 15 of the next 18 weeks.
John,

That is a very ambitious schedule. Beside posting here, what do you do to pace yourself so you remain sharp both physically and mentally.
john riegger
i pace myself by putting in all the hard work while i am at home.both on my body and on the range.i was out for almost 2 years due to 2 surgeries so i have had to get my body back in playing shape.mentally i have been ready it just takes time to get back into tournament shape.the scoring has been slow going but i have been very patient,because i am very mechanically sound with my swing.i just need to play and play alot so it breaks through.that was a tentative schedule and could change at any time.i promise you that i will not play myself to tired to play my best.right now i am going to focus on just playing golf and due periodic alignment checkups.thanks for your questions
Matt
Maybe we'll catch up with you at the Milwaukee event?
radlink54
Originally Posted by john riegger mr.kelly always mentions finding your first wobble point and correcting it before moving on.if you are looking for a way to find this wobble if you have any,is to drill this.get setup to hit a shot and now make you swing in slow motion.i am talking real slow like you are watching a video frame by frame.
what will this show you.first you will see that the golf swing is a hand controlled pivot.you will feel lag loading and lag thrust doing this drill.concentrate on #3 while you are doing this.also from the top work on the start down waggle in slow motion.it is a great drill for devoloping feel.
one more thing for you guys to try is to do the same slow motion drill with your putter.remember to look look to develop your feel.hope this helps you guys like it has helped me

I did a thread search on "start down waggle" but came up empty. I have heard this term before, but don't recall it being discussed at Old Waverly. And although I have read the book, somehow this is a point I have missed. Is this important, and why? John and/or Lynn--please expand.
drewitgolf
3-F-5, last paragraph .
Yoda
Originally Posted by radlink54
I did a thread search on "start down waggle" but came up empty. I have heard this term before, but don't recall it being discussed at Old Waverly. And although I have read the book, somehow this is a point I have missed. Is this important, and why? John and/or Lynn--please expand.
Hi David,

I know I've written on this subject, but not sure where. Maybe someone could help us here. I did demonstrate the Start Down Waggle (3-F-5) from the front of the Lesson Tee at Old Waverly and used it repeatedly with various students during the class. However, with the emphasis on the action itself, I'm not surprised the terminology slipped by.

The Start Down Waggle is a deliberate rehearsal of the Lag Loading Action from the Top and the ultimate cure for Downstroke Blackout and Clubhead Throwaway (6-D-0). Use the Pivot to Pull the Butt of the Club toward the Plane Line (until the Hands are well into their Downstroke 'Slot') and then return to the Top. Repeat several times in a pumping motion. Unless the Waggle is taken through the Release, the Power Package will remain fully Assembled, i.e., the Left Wrist will remained Cocked and the Right Elbow will remain Bent. Extensor Action is mandatory throughout the Motion.

A real key here is to make sure that the Right Shoulder remains back (On Plane) and turns directly toward the Ball. This will provide the On Plane Transportation the Hands need to do their work. Remember the words of Homer Kelley (3-B):

"Those who work constantly -- and fruitlessly -- on Address, Body and Impact actually lack Educated Hands to get them through Start Down -- invariably."
birdie_man
I don't get that quote Lynn....?

I guess he's referring to a pure Pivot Controlled type golfer? All "flail" w/ no concern even as to what the hands are doing?
Yoda
Originally Posted by birdie_man
I don't get that quote Lynn....?

I guess he's referring to a pure Pivot Controlled type golfer? All "flail" w/ no concern even as to what the hands are doing?
What Homer is saying is that the Hands must remain On Plane during the Start Down, and they must dictate that alignment to the Pivot. Their relationship is with the Plane Line, not with the Body.

If the Right Shoulder comes off the Plane during the Start Down, it takes the Hands with it. And this is what happens with most golfers. The Hips and Shoulders turn back to the Ball together, the Right Shoulder Turns Off Plane -- it does not stay 'back' -- and the Hands follow. The player must learn to turn his Hips independent of his Shoulders -- Hula Hula flexibility (7-13) -- and thus avoid Roundhousing and its inevitable Clubhead Throwaway. Then and only then will the Hands be able to travel down their Delivery Path toward Impact.
radlink54
Originally Posted by Yoda Hi David,

I know I've written on this subject, but not sure where. Maybe someone could help us here. I did demonstrate the Start Down Waggle (3-F-5) from the front of the Lesson Tee at Old Waverly and used it repeatedly with various students during the class. However, with the emphasis on the action itself, I'm not surprised the terminology slipped by.

The Start Down Waggle is a deliberate rehearsal of the Lag Loading Action from the Top and the ultimate cure for Downstroke Blackout and Clubhead Throwaway (6-D-0). Use the Pivot to Pull the Butt of the Club toward the Plane Line (until the Hands are well into their Downstroke 'Slot') and then return to the Top. Repeat several times in a pumping motion. Unless the Waggle is taken through the Release, the Power Package will remain fully Assembled, i.e., the Left Wrist will remained Cocked and the Right Elbow will remain Bent. Extensor Action is mandatory throughout the Motion.

A real key here is to make sure that the Right Shoulder remains back (On Plane) and turns directly toward the Ball. This will provide the On Plane Transportation the Hands need to do their work. Remember the words of Homer Kelley (3-B):

"Those who work constantly -- and fruitlessly -- on Address, Body and Impact actually lack Educated Hands to get them through Start Down -- invariably."
Thanks Lynn. I will review this section and work on this. I know that one of my struggles ON THE COURSE is to avoid "downstroke blackout" while maintaining a nonmechanical "unconcious competence" target/shot awareness. I think Homer's term downstroke blackout is so right on, because in a nutshell it is why my game on the course is NOT my game on the range (at least with regards to ballstriking!). Does anyone else experience this? I would be interested to hear how a tour pro approaches this--John?
ram418
Originally Posted by radlink54 I did a thread search on "start down waggle" but came up empty. I have heard this term before, but don't recall it being discussed at Old Waverly. And although I have read the book, somehow this is a point I have missed. Is this important, and why? John and/or Lynn--please expand.
I did a search on "pivot" by YodasLuke and got nothing. There must be an issue with the Search Engine
Matt
Originally Posted by ram418 I did a search on "pivot" by YodasLuke and got nothing. There must be an issue with the Search Engine
Search engine has also been acting up for me, at least yesterday it was.
bambam
try it again guys...