best way to stay on plane

In your opinion what do you think is the best way to keep the back swing on plane, rft, stt? I seem to go a good job of keeping it on plane with a rft but feel as if there is no club face rotation

Depends what kinda Plane you want really.

I think the stock answer would be that a RFPickup naturally would be easiest to keep the club going up and down the TSP....

But then again Nicklaus I think did a STT on-Plane (with some right forearm lift in there too of course....doesn't work otherwise)....same with "old Tiger."

...

And then again....a lot of people are Double Shifters/Single Shifters.

Originally Posted by shootin4par In your opinion what do you think is the best way to keep the back swing on plane, rft, stt? I seem to go a good job of keeping it on plane with a rft but feel as if there is no club face rotation

One of the biggest reasons people get off plane is that they let their hands move 'out' on the backswing, usually right off the bat - rather than the hands going back, up and in.

This results in a 'lift and roll' move where the hands are too far outside, above plane, while the clubshaft and clubhead are likely too inside and underplane (visually).

Practice your takeaway with the shaft along a picnic bench, which will let you 'allow' the clubface rotation and still stay on plane - tracing a straight plane line

How many of you have actually built a PLANE(Plastic Sheet) like Mr. Kelley had?

Originally Posted by lagster How many of you have actually built a PLANE(Plastic Sheet) like Mr. Kelley had?

I've got two dowels.Perfect if you know where to put them.

Plane Lasers...

learn how YOU have to swing to trace that straight line, however you have too.

Don't have a plane-anything.

I will point my club at whatever straight line I can fine....

Carpet line....cartpath line.....line/crack in the cement....etc.

Originally Posted by shootin4par In your opinion what do you think is the best way to keep the back swing on plane, rft, stt? I seem to go a good job of keeping it on plane with a rft but feel as if there is no club face rotation

I would say stt, since the movement of the shoulders, especially in rotating, varies much less than those of the arms and hands.

thanks guys
and a question about the rfp,
do you try and keep your right elbow close to your side in the beggining of it so your right elbow bends, or do you just let it fly. In the RFP it feels like no club face rotation

Originally Posted by lagster How many of you have actually built a PLANE(Plastic Sheet) like Mr. Kelley had?

Alot of fun to be had just standing in the plane! I listened to Homer on one of the audio downloads from Croker site and felt inspired.

Feeling the plane around takeaway , impact is pretty easy with a small plane board but feeling where it goes after impact towards finish swivel ... that made a difference. I had been steering and now have starting using finish swivel to get the shaft on plane again after impact.

Mine can be assembled or dismantled in 5 mins so no hassle to use really!

Originally Posted by EdZ One of the biggest reasons people get off plane is that they let their hands move 'out' on the backswing, usually right off the bat - rather than the hands going back, up and in.

This results in a 'lift and roll' move where the hands are too far outside, above plane, while the clubshaft and clubhead are likely too inside and underplane (visually).

Practice your takeaway with the shaft along a picnic bench, which will let you 'allow' the clubface rotation and still stay on plane - tracing a straight plane line

This is a super old post but just wanted to say thanks. I thought I was on plane until I read this. It has helped my ball striking. Just like EdZ said, I was right off plane from the start!!

Originally Posted by Yoda Congratulations on your discovery, curtisj. The archives are chock full of such golden nuggets, and the good news is . . .

Even after you mine it, the gold remains for others!

That picnic bench brings back some great memories of Pine Needles, When Yoda demonstrated the power of a straight plane line.

The best way to stay on plane IMHO is to trace the straight plane line. Your educated right forearm will guide the flying wedge assembly just perfectly.

Best archives on the internet. Member driven and Yoda taught.

Originally Posted by shootin4par thanks guys
and a question about the rfp,
do you try and keep your right elbow close to your side in the beggining of it so your right elbow bends, or do you just let it fly. In the RFP it feels like no club face rotation

Hmm? I sense confusion. Answer a question. It's not a trick question so don't get paranoid. It's also multiple choice.

First, get into adjusted address. Now stand straight up with arms parallel to the floor. Next, do a RFT but DO NOT move your shoulders. Here comes the question. How far to the right did your left arm/hand travel across your chest?

No one answer except shootin4par.

A. 9"
B. 18"
C. 24"
D. 30"

Originally Posted by Daryl Hmm? I sense confusion. Answer a question. It's not a trick question so don't get paranoid. It's also multiple choice.

First, get into adjusted address. Now stand straight up with arms parallel to the floor. Next, do a RFT but DO NOT move your shoulders. Here comes the question. How far to the right did your left arm/hand travel across your chest?

No one answer except shootin4par.

A. 9"
B. 18"
C. 24"
D. 30"

I will say B
the left hand is about 18 inches away from center and the left arm is at about a 20* angle

Originally Posted by shootin4par I will say B
the left hand is about 18 inches away from center and the left arm is at about a 20* angle

I was afraid of that (now I have to write this long answer ), but the answer is A. This may be the root of your issue about keeping the Clubshaft On-Plane during the backswing. Your power Package has move away from an "in front" of body position. You have a broken Triangle. Substitute your right arm for a towel placed in your left arm pit at one end and held in your right hand at address position in the other with the towel pulled taught. Keep pulling on the towel while testing how far you can move your right hand away from center. How far can you move your right hand now?

Swingers version of the RFT.

Notice, from an Adjusted Address position and without a Club, that you can move your hands (pretend you're gripping a Club) to the right almost any distances identified in the answers A through D (without Extensor Action). Also, keep in mind that you can create almost any Path away from the ball. You can move your hands away in front of you or pull them behind you or make them go straight back away from you. And, you can make them travel Backward, Inward and Upward simultaneously. However, the RFT is a special way.

To get the feel and visually see the procedure you'll need a chair (like a folding chair) that has a back about as high as your hips. Stand behind the chair and assume an Adjusted Address posture (without a club) so that the butt end of your Left Hand lies on the face of the chair back. Using light Extensor Action pressure (#1 PP), push down gently so that your Left Wrist Flattens and your Right Wrist Bends. If your Left Wrist Arches slightly, then you're pushing in the wrong direction. Push gently down in the direction of your left arm. Once you accomplish the Flat Left Wrist, then Turn your hands a little to the right without letting the butt end of the Left Hand come off the back of the chair back (it will rock to the right and stay on the back of the chair). So the back of the right hand needs to move a little toward the back of the chair as you rotate. It's only a slight rotation. If you had a Club in your hands the Clubhead would only have traveled about two feet and the Clubshaft still points toward the base line of the inclined plane.

Next, slide your hands to the right a few more inches while continuing to turn your hands until your hands are in the line of sight to your right foot. Because your hands are simultaneously moving and Turning slightly to the right, they appear to only turn slightly more. That's the RFT. You have structure. Your right forearm has become fanned opened. You reestablished the flying wedges and turned your hands.

At this point, the end of the RFT you should have created enough structure so that any further motion will start your shoulders to turn. Continue to the Top or End, whichever is your procedure and you should have accomplished a TSP.

But, and this is the TGM fun part, the RFT should be accomplished with Extensor Action alone. Train you extensor action to complete this procedure in one simple move integrated seamlessly into the backswing.

BDog,
How about sharing the construction plans with us??

I remember Mr. Kelley talking about the PLASTIC PLANE he built... the one in the book. He said something like... "You won't believe what it feels like, until you get into that Plane." He advised building one for yourself.

If, however, you are not having a problem with PLANE, and maybe have an unusual, but effective shift, for example, the PLASTIC PLANE may better be left alone.