Why tee up the ball at all?

2-J-2 INSIDE-OUT IMPACT ...
The ball should always be struck prior to the low point of the Downstroke, even when using the Driver, except under special conditions or to produce a special effect, which is a separate area of consideration.

When I see the pros hit drivers they leave the wooden tee in the ground undisturbed. So if the bottom of the ball is level with the bottom of the driver at impact, why tee the ball up at all? I can understand that if the teebox surface is irregular it might be necessary to tee the ball up a little, to clear the irregularities.

Also, I often see players using long wooden tees of 4" or more, so are we no longer concerned with the lie angle of the clubhead when hitting the driver?

I don't think most pro hit their drivers on the downstroke, maybe level and more up.

I see plenty of flying tees when the pros tee off. When the tee is left I think they have hit a touch thin.

CW

Originally Posted by Weightshift 2-J-2 INSIDE-OUT IMPACT ...
The ball should always be struck prior to the low point of the Downstroke, even when using the Driver, except under special conditions or to produce a special effect, which is a separate area of consideration.

When I see the pros hit drivers they leave the wooden tee in the ground undisturbed. So if the bottom of the ball is level with the bottom of the driver at impact, why tee the ball up at all? I can understand that if the teebox surface is irregular it might be necessary to tee the ball up a little, to clear the irregularities.

Also, I often see players using long wooden tees of 4" or more, so are we no longer concerned with the lie angle of the clubhead when hitting the driver?

"prior to the low point of the Downstroke" can be regarded as "prior to the shaft being in-line with the leading arm", which also means "prior to release (throwaway)" when the pivot is vertical to the ground.

The clubhead can pass the low point and start to move upward (relative to the level ground) at impact "prior to the shaft being in-line with the leading arm" or "prior to release (throwaway)" when the pivot is tilted away from the target. The ball needs to be teed up to allow the above to happen without hitting it fat.

Hackers usually hit the ball "after the shaft passing the in-line condition with the leading arm" or "after release (throwaway)", regardless of pivot position.

Originally Posted by bts "prior to the low point of the Downstroke" can be regarded as "prior to the shaft being in-line with the leading arm", which also means "prior to release (throwaway)" when the pivot is vertical to the ground.

The clubhead can pass the low point and start to move upward (relative to the level ground) at impact "prior to the shaft being in-line with the leading arm" or "prior to release (throwaway)" when the pivot is tilted away from the target. The ball needs to be teed up to allow the above to happen without hitting it fat.

Hackers usually hit the ball "after the shaft passing the in-line condition with the leading arm" or "after release (throwaway)", regardless of pivot position.

Excellent post!

Some of the newer BIG HEADED DRIVERS do not look to me as if they are designed to hit the ball off the ground. Some look better than others for this.

Ken Venturi used to not ever use a tee with the driver. Of course he was using a shallower wooden-wood.
Jack Nicklaus uses a tee when ever he can, even with irons on par threes.
The LONG DRIVE guys usually tee the ball very high!
Do what works well for you.

Originally Posted by bts "prior to the low point of the Downstroke" can be regarded as "prior to the shaft being in-line with the leading arm", which also means "prior to release (throwaway)" when the pivot is vertical to the ground.

The clubhead can pass the low point and start to move upward (relative to the level ground) at impact "prior to the shaft being in-line with the leading arm" or "prior to release (throwaway)" when the pivot is tilted away from the target. The ball needs to be teed up to allow the above to happen without hitting it fat.

Hackers usually hit the ball "after the shaft passing the in-line condition with the leading arm" or "after release (throwaway)", regardless of pivot position.

I may be sticking my neck out here, especially after seeing the renowned EdZ praise your post, but quite honestly I don't understand your reply.

(1)"prior to the low point of the downstroke"
- means only one thing to me, exactly what it says.

(2)"The clubhead can pass the low point and start to move upward (relative to the level ground) at impact"
- suggests that impact occurs after low point, which is totally contrary to Homer's writings.

(3)"when the pivot is tilted away from the target"
- although Homer speaks of "the Pivot" most of his descriptions refer to the pivot as a motion. With a (near) stationary head, the body at impact somewhat resembles a letter "C" with the hips turned facing the target and most of body weight on the left side . If this is the "tilt" you are describing, the thrust is still downwards.

Originally Posted by Weightshift 2-J-2 INSIDE-OUT IMPACT ...
The ball should always be struck prior to the low point of the Downstroke, even when using the Driver, except under special conditions or to produce a special effect, which is a separate area of consideration.

When I see the pros hit drivers they leave the wooden tee in the ground undisturbed. So if the bottom of the ball is level with the bottom of the driver at impact, why tee the ball up at all? I can understand that if the teebox surface is irregular it might be necessary to tee the ball up a little, to clear the irregularities.

Also, I often see players using long wooden tees of 4" or more, so are we no longer concerned with the lie angle of the clubhead when hitting the driver?

Thanks for the replies, but I've just "seen the light". The ball is teed up so that low point occurs above ground, thus allowing "The ball should always be struck prior to the low point of the Downstroke, even when using the Driver" without hitting the ground or "hitting it fat". I can be so dumb some days

Little threadjack that I could not resist - sorry.

Originally Posted by Weightshift Is hitting a slice the luck of the draw

No, but a Draw is a Slice of good fortune.

Originally Posted by Burner Little threadjack that I could not resist - sorry.

No, but a Draw is a Slice of good fortune.

Thanks, I'll add it to my collection

Originally Posted by Weightshift 2-J-2 INSIDE-OUT IMPACT ...
The ball should always be struck prior to the low point of the Downstroke, even when using the Driver, except under special conditions or to produce a special effect, which is a separate area of consideration.

When I see the pros hit drivers they leave the wooden tee in the ground undisturbed. So if the bottom of the ball is level with the bottom of the driver at impact, why tee the ball up at all? I can understand that if the teebox surface is irregular it might be necessary to tee the ball up a little, to clear the irregularities.

Also, I often see players using long wooden tees of 4" or more, so are we no longer concerned with the lie angle of the clubhead when hitting the driver?

In order to achieve maximum distance, you need high launch and (appropriately)low spin. A lot of pros, and long drive pros in particular, position the ball in such a way that they can contact the ball on the upswing, in order to produce this condition. Could that be a "special effect" that Homer is referring to?

Originally Posted by Bigwill In order to achieve maximum distance, you need high launch and (appropriately)low spin. A lot of pros, and long drive pros in particular, position the ball in such a way that they can contact the ball on the upswing, in order to produce this condition. Could that be a "special effect" that Homer is referring to?

Good point! Let's wait and see what the experts say.

Because the sweetspot is higher up the clubface on a driver at impact point than the ball sitting on the ground..ie like an iron would be designed....

Those that think most pros hit on the upstroke should watch the swing visions on youtube without listening to the commentary and use their own eyes to see....

Heres some pics for you

Originally Posted by Mathew Heres some pics for you

These photos seem subjective to me in that the camera angle must play a part in the relative motion. Scott pic looks deceiving (maybe just me)

Seems to me that this should or could be proven empirically with swing machines like PING MAN or similar. Dispersion rates either increase or decrease depending on stroke.

CW

Originally Posted by Bigwill In order to achieve maximum distance, you need high launch and (appropriately)low spin. A lot of pros, and long drive pros in particular, position the ball in such a way that they can contact the ball on the upswing, in order to produce this condition. Could that be a "special effect" that Homer is referring to?

Bigwill wins the Bigprize!

Originally Posted by Mike O Bigwill wins the Bigprize!

I don't think so