right elbow during the backswing?

should the right elbow stay against the right side or be AWAY from the right side AT THE TOP OF THE BACKSWING? should it move UP and AWAY from the right side and then back down against the side during the swing?

It will move away from the body. But its folding motion is more important than the distance. Appleby's elbow looks like it stays attached while others have elbows that look like it will never stop moving away.

The first move of a Right Forearm Take-away should begin like a clapping motion away from the center. I would not think about where the right elbow is but rather have it fold while the right hand traces the straight plane line.

As you discovered the hands move out, up and in- a three dimensional move along the incline swing plane (which is attached to the striaght plane line on the ground like a roof to a gutter), allow the elbow to fold and cock the left flat wrist as it moves On Plane. The structure of the bent right wrist with the flat left wrist (Flying wedges) is more important than where the elbow is at the top.

Where it is on the DownStroke is the 100 dollar question.
"Its got to be somewhere" said Homer. Pitch, punch or push

Originally Posted by jerry1967 should the right elbow stay against the right side during the backswing, or should it move up and away from the side and then back down against the side during the swing?

As a general rule, the higher the hands go up in the backswing the further away from the side the elbow gets.

Maintaining the flying wedge structure established at impact fix should ensure that the relationship of elbow to side never gets strained.

More importantly, perhaps, it is not good to allow the elbow get behind the hip on the backswing.

If the 1st move in the takeaway is 'turning the left hand onto the plane / bending the right wrist', the right elbow will be very close to the side in the early stages of the backswing.

If one were to use more of a shoulder turn takeaway with a lot of 'extensor action' (trying to keep the right arm straight), the right elbow would be more away from the side during the early stages of the backswing.

Neither is more incorrect or more correct than the other and should have no effect on the energy efficiency of the downswing. The elbow will move away from the side during the later stages of the backswing - how much would depend upon the backswing plane chosen for either end or top.

I prefer to have my right elbow close to my side in the early stages of the backswing (personal preference.

I have always wondered why so much of current instruction correlates the "width" of the backswing with the ability to create power on the downswing (i.e. a wide clubhead arc in the backswing will lead to more power / distance) - pure B.S. If width were the key, we would get the clubhead to go as wide a possbile on the downswing - key to throwaway.

Bruce

Originally Posted by blehnhard I have always wondered why so much of current instruction correlates the "width" of the backswing with the ability to create power on the downswing (i.e. a wide clubhead arc in the backswing will lead to more power / distance) - pure B.S. If width were the key, we would get the clubhead to go as wide a possbile on the downswing - key to throwaway.

Bruce

I agree with you completely Bruce. The only way taking the club wide back is good is if it helps the person come much more narrow on the way down. It's really odd that a couple of the "top teachers" talk about the importance of a wide downswing, to me, that's just plain stupid.

Matt

Originally Posted by jerry1967 should the right elbow stay against the right side during the backswing, or should it move up and away from the side and then back down against the side during the swing?

sorry, what i meant to say was, should the right elbow be against the side or away from the side AT THE TOP OF THE SWING?

Originally Posted by 6bmike It will move away from the body. But its folding motion is more important than the distance. Appleby's elbow looks like it stays attached while others have elbows that look like it will never stop moving away.

The first move of a Right Forearm Take-away should begin like a clapping motion away from the center. I would not think about where the right elbow is but rather have it fold while the right hand traces the straight plane line.

As you discovered the hands move out, up and in- a three dimensional move along the incline swing plane (which is attached to the striaght plane line on the ground like a roof to a gutter), allow the elbow to fold and cock the left flat wrist as it moves On Plane. The structure of the bent right wrist with the flat left wrist (Flying wedges) is more important than where the elbow is at the top.

Where it is on the DownStroke is the 100 dollar question.
"Its got to be somewhere" said Homer. Pitch, punch or push

will it move early in the swing or late in the back swing?

[quote=6bmike]It will move away from the body.
will it move away early or late in the backswing?

Originally Posted by jerry1967 will it move early in the swing or late in the back swing?

The right forearm is moving the hands, so it would be early. The left shoulder is NOT pushing the hands away in a so-called one piece take-away.

It is important to focus on the right hand- pp3- is it traces the plane line on the ground. The right elbow will fold naturally.

Althought the right hand -pp3- traces the straight plane line running linear along the ground, examination will show you that the hands- Flying Wedges- are moving out-up and in along the inclined swing plane. The Magic of the Right Forearm.

Originally Posted by jerry1967 should the right elbow stay against the right side or be AWAY from the right side AT THE TOP OF THE BACKSWING? should it move UP and AWAY from the right side and then back down against the side during the swing?

Isn't a key point here the choice of loading action - there has been a recent topic on 7-3 about this which helped me alot - not sure if i have got it yet but my understanding so far goes like this:-

Hitters load pp3 differently to swingers - the right forearm supports primary and secondary lever assemblies differently ( all that stuff in 7-3)- therefore position of right elbow will usually differ.

These are preferred options at top/end of stroke which make movement towards pitch/punch elbow position on downswing a less contorted effort. They are not mandatory but it seems that a swinger with a more vertically aligned right forearm at end will be able to support the club (secondary lever)-with its rotated pp3 - and from this position it is then easier to get to the preferred swingers pitch position on downswing.

so whilstt right elbow at top /end is further from body than start up it is the direction of its pointing - and hence the alignment of forearm supporting levers - that is imoprtant - i think?

The "look" of the right elbow at the top of the backswing will "look different" based on what loading action you used in the backswing.

well having it at your side like a dana quigley will result in shorter swing wich could lead to less power, but should be easier to control. I say try it both ways and see if you hitt it straighter or farther with the different motions and then see wich seems more important to you with your game. I prefer to keep it to my side and allow my right elbow to bend right away then let the arm come off my side at the top then as i shif my weight left let it come back to my side.