Homer Kelley's Most Important Swing Thought

I'm going with Hans , oops, Hands.

In a book full of information, which of these is described using the word "magic"

That tells me Homer's view, or it is certainly a big indicator of the likely answer from him.

Many goodies to choose from, hmmmmmmmmmm. In Ben Doyles video there is a phrase he repeats time after time after time and i'm going to guess that way. Great question this one.

I'm going with #5. Getting in a good position to execute a hinge action requires 1, 2, 3, and 4.

#1

I'm on number 2. In his video Doyle never stops repeating about the mind in the hands, and he delt with Homer firsthand a lot. Only a guess tho. Homer is also very partial to the hands controlled pivot, the hands, the hands. If the hands go to all the right places and do the right things..........the body will follow. Yoda has me intrigued now lol

Originally Posted by Doug #1

But isn't this controlled/influenced by the Hands, Hands, Hands?

Woohoo, another hands man!!!

Assuming #3 is a direct Homer quote, it reveals his own choice.

Even though it is not the most popular choice I still have to go with #5. Difficult to achieve without the first 4 answers.

"Lag", period.

As a swing "thought", I have to go with #2; Hands down.

eyes on the ball, mind in the hands - but specifically the flat left wrist is my guess

I went for Flat left Wrist but Hands was a very close 2nd.
Alex

Theres not too much time for thinking during the swing.

"sustain the lag." For me, the most difficult .

DRW

I vote for the MAGIC of the right forearm.

I voted for #1 but my gut feeling was telling me the same as Hunter.
But . . . I never was good at guessing on tests!

Dave

I'm suprised that one of those would be used as you stand over the ball. You 'saw" the shot, can feel the target. From there it's mindfulness. Just get out of the way and let your body do it.

They are all excellent for practice, though. The swing thought of the flat wrist at impact seems to draw the others in line for me.

Charlie

"The Heart and soul of G.O.L.F. is developing a swing based on the hands."
Homer Kelley

After re-reading all my Yoda Lag posts from forums long ago. I think it might be Lag in the end.

We have several dealing with the hands, one lag, two with delivery and pivot. None can be tossed out.

Hands sense the lag
Hands control the flat left wrist
Hands control the hinge action
You could argue hands control the right forearm as well.

Originally Posted by mb6606 Hands sense the lag
Hands control the flat left wrist
Hands control the hinge action
You could argue hands control the right forearm as well.

Well put!

I voted for flat left wrist.

My new bride voted for hands, in particular...... mine.

-Greg

Originally Posted by mb6606 Hands sense the lag
Hands control the flat left wrist
Hands control the hinge action
You could argue hands control the right forearm as well.

Flat left wrist insures a lagging clubhead
Flat left wrist control is hinge action

.....and hands, hands, hands I think isn't particular enough for a swingthougt

I know Homer felt the "secret" to good golf was lag, but am hoping that the hands cover this. Swing thought vs secret hmmmmm

without a flat left wrist you have nothing.its your insurance on the course.

Well i'll be - i would have picked this fourth or so *blushes* Live and learn

It's interesting that 10-3-B reads, "a Right Forearm Underhand Pitch is delivered at the Aiming Point with a stiff-wrist slapping motion".

In light of the forearm tracing the plane line this statement (at least for swingers) becomes #1 in importance?

<<He had spent so many years focusing on getting correctly to the Top >>

Yoda~

We know about plane angles and the plane line and that useful plane angles are those between the elbow and shoulder......about the flat left wrist and the bent right......about the shaft plane and the sweet spot plane and that both pass through the lag pressure point........about the RF Flying Wedge, the movement of the RF in an out of the plane .......about the right shoulder being on plane at the top....and that plane shifts are hazadorus but acceptable. As a student, please let me know if "getting there correctly" means taking a more specific path?

DRW

Back into the kitchen with the dowels.......

Charlie

Yoda~

Thanks for sharing. There is something about TGM that sharpens our comprehension and listening skills (I think). The story reinforces my opinion that Chapter 4 is worth the price of the book.

DRW

[quote="Yoda"][quote="DOCW3"]

Originally Posted by Yoda
Homer solved his problem with the thought of Right Forearm Plane Line Tracing. He now had a swing key to get him from the Top through Impact. He would visualize this Tracing at Address and remain totally conscious of it throughout the Stroke. It cured his Downstroke Blackout (3-F-5) and was the basis of his quote (from 3-B):

"To develop skill at Golf, your 'attention span' must be at least as long as your swing."

What a great post. I am certainly gonna try this.

While I probably have many swing faults, the biggest obstacle against more GIR's is in my case is probably the inability to trigger a stroke procedure that gives good results most of the time. I have several procedures lurking that work well. But more often than not I fail to call them.

And I often know at setup whether I have it or not. (If I were to not hit until I am 100% ready I would probably only make 36 holes during a season).

I probably need keys that is mechanically more precise than the very unprecise "now you don't have it" sensations that I currently have.

Please keep the keys coming.

Thanks,

BerntR

- First post
-Norwegian golfer, new to this forum, trying to learn the
mechanical and mental aspects of the GAME
- In need of a proper terrminologi to go from feel to mechanics and back
- Now trying to use TGM as a vehicle to understand my own swing.
Results sofar:
- by consulting some of your posts - confirmed natural born hitter
- On typical bad days good directional control, and poor distance
control. Has now learned that this probably corresponds with
compression leak caused by an angular hinge action and a solid slice
under the ball (I believe I can slice a draw).
- Discovered that n good days a (much more) horisontal hinging
action is present.
- can alternate between swinging and hitting
- has recently "discovered" that the integrity of the flying wedge
correlates with my stroke quality.

- and am very impressed with the stuff that is being published on the
TGM forums.

Some of the research that I've read (and it may be wrong) got me thinking:
It takes 1/3 of a second for your hands to translate a feel up to your mind, a 1/4 second to process it, and a 1/3 of a second to send it back. (If anyone knows any better data please feel free to correct me). Your golf swing only takes 0.8-1.2 seconds from start-up to impact. What can you really think about in that amount of time? I think we would all agree that Homer was a smart guy but I think another reason it is hard to have downswing thoughts is that the ball is at least 20 feet off your club before you can't do anything about it.
In having this discussion with Joe Daniels, he stated that one of the many reasons Tiger is so good is that he has created a wider freeway lane from his hands to his brain compared to the small alleys that most of us have developed thus being able to save shots with unbelievably educated hands.
Maybe this should go under swing thoughts but as a G.O.L.F. instructor I try to build good address posture, get them to the top with precision and watch'em pose as they finish. I do use the right forearm tracing drill but I try to stay away from downswing thoughts unless that is the only thought they have during the stroke. Tracing works phenomenally with putting too!

Originally Posted by pluthb Some of the research that I've read (and it may be wrong) got me thinking:
It takes 1/3 of a second for your hands to translate a feel up to your mind, a 1/4 second to process it, and a 1/3 of a second to send it back. (If anyone knows any better data please feel free to correct me).

No car would survive a normal rush hour if the drivers had this slow reaction.

In 100m sprint the starting reaction time is close to 1/10 second.

In high scool we did an experiment using stop watches. Many of us recorded around 1/10 second reaction time many times. During that 1/10 we received a pressure in the left hand, and "shortly" thereafter stopped a watch with the right hand.


I think if you divide your figures by 10 you are in the ball park.

Originally Posted by Yoda Homer solved his problem with the thought of Right Forearm Plane Line Tracing. He now had a swing key to get him from the Top through Impact. He would visualize this Tracing at Address and remain totally conscious of it throughout the Stroke. It cured his Downstroke Blackout (3-F-5) and was the basis of his quote (from 3-B):

"To develop skill at Golf, your 'attention span' must be at least as long as your swing."

I wish it wasn't dark (and the driving ranges closed). I suffer from Downstroke Blackout more often than I'd like to admit.

Originally Posted by pluthb Some of the research that I've read (and it may be wrong) got me thinking:
It takes 1/3 of a second for your hands to translate a feel up to your mind, a 1/4 second to process it, and a 1/3 of a second to send it back. (If anyone knows any better data please feel free to correct me). Your golf swing only takes 0.8-1.2 seconds from start-up to impact. What can you really think about in that amount of time? I think we would all agree that Homer was a smart guy but I think another reason it is hard to have downswing thoughts is that the ball is at least 20 feet off your club before you can't do anything about it.
In having this discussion with Joe Daniels, he stated that one of the many reasons Tiger is so good is that he has created a wider freeway lane from his hands to his brain compared to the small alleys that most of us have developed thus being able to save shots with unbelievably educated hands.
Maybe this should go under swing thoughts but as a G.O.L.F. instructor I try to build good address posture, get them to the top with precision and watch'em pose as they finish. I do use the right forearm tracing drill but I try to stay away from downswing thoughts unless that is the only thought they have during the stroke. Tracing works phenomenally with putting too!

I don't know if you're numbers are accurate or not, but I think they're irrelevent to the golf swing. In the golf swing you aren't reacting to anything. If you're visualizing tracing, you are planning ahead. You are anticipating what the hands are going to doing, and then maintaining consciousness throughout the swing. Maintaing awareness is something very different than reacting.

I'm sure that Mr. Kelley would admit that you can't react to anything during the downswing, but I think it's entirely possible to maintain awareness of something you've visualized prior to ever taking the club back. If you visualize a flat left wrist and a bent right at impact, it seems a fairly simple task to be conscious of that position through impact.

Well exactly...you are always monitoring it.

Whether it is consciously while you are practicing or subconsciously when it is engrained as a habit.

Number Four: "The Right Forearm tracing down the Delivery Line."

6-E-2-1 Thrust Direction. "....The Hands must always take one of the Delivery Paths (10-23) but even with the Circle Path, the Thrust is still a straight-line EFFORT toward the Aiming Point. And even "Tracing (5-0) must not disrupt it."

Does this text relegate "Tracing" to a secondary position, or not?

Originally Posted by strav

Number Four: "The Right Forearm tracing down the Delivery Line."

6-E-2-1 Thrust Direction. "....The Hands must always take one of the Delivery Paths (10-23) but even with the Circle Path, the Thrust is still a straight-line EFFORT toward the Aiming Point. And even "Tracing (5-0) must not disrupt it."

Does this text relegate "Tracing" to a secondary position, or not?

No- same position- different view of the line.

The Tracing of the Plane Line (ground) is automatic when you monitor the Delivery Path of the Hands or use an Aiming Point concept. Hands ‘trump’ forearms as a “Visual Adjustment” (my word). The Hands and Forearm are still on plane, you are just “seeing” and monitoring one of them from your perspective. And Hands have top priority. So drive pp#3 to your hearts content straight into the ball- aft rear.

Thanks 6Bmike,
In the quote I had interpreted Tracing as a means to an end for a sighted player and that the end was more important than the means.

Originally Posted by Yoda And his answer was...

&lt;drum roll please!>

Number Four: "The Right Forearm tracing down the Delivery Line."

Was out for 9 holes with my wife yesterday. And decided to try this swing thought. It worked! On everything from driver to putter.

On the 7th I asked my wife if she wanted to see an "Arnold Palmer" (hit). The T-shot is suited for a high fade. But she'd rather see the "overweight alcoholic" as she put it so I went for an all out "John Daly" drive with 45* extra rotation on the clubshaft in the back swing. With Homers swing thought I found the path back to the ball and sailed it way past the dogleg.

On the last holes it felt like impossible to produce a big miss with this swing thought.

Originally Posted by Yoda Number Four: "The Right Forearm tracing down the Delivery Line."

Homer described the Inclined Plane as "the heart and soul" of the golf Stroke. And Tracing the Delivery Line assures staying On Plane. The Delivery Line could be either the true Geometric Plane Line (Swinging) -- the straight line baseline of the Inclined Plane; or, the Angle of Approach (Hitting) -- the geometric equivalent of the Arc of Approach (2-J-3).

He added that the thought might be peculiar to him: He had spent so many years focusing on getting correctly to the Top that he needed a key to get him from the Top through Impact!

Congratulations to the nine percent of the voters who got it right. Now, let's all get out there and Trace!

Does trace mean feel as though the right arm is riding on the plane if it were a piece of glass? So if you use a table as the plane the right forearm would stay on the table all the way down through the ball?

As if an extension of your arm (i.e. dowel, flashlight beam) was pointing at the plane line.

Hi:

Very suprising. Only 11 percent got this correct. I assume even those who went to the Yoda seminars. I thought the answers would be the hands.

Hands supercede everything, correct? Hands to aiming point in a straight line, correct? Trace the plane line with the right forearm, or direct hands at aiming point, not both, correct?

If one visualizes tracing the plane line with the right forearm, to avoid downstroke blackout, how does one incorporate aiming point?

Wouldn't one hit fat shots by only thinking about plane line tracing?

Bye

Nonononono....that's just a swing thought...

Just cause you think about that and not aiming point at the same time doesn't mean you won't do it....your hands have to be trained how to do it, but you shouldn't really have to think about it consciously after that...

And basically, when he says "Tracing the delivery line with the right forearm," you could think of it as pointing the shaft at the delivery line...that works better for me personally.

Read what Yoda said:

"Homer described the Inclined Plane as "the heart and soul" of the golf Stroke. And Tracing the Delivery Line assures staying On Plane. The Delivery Line could be either the true Geometric Plane Line (Swinging) -- the straight line baseline of the Inclined Plane; or, the Angle of Approach (Hitting) -- the geometric equivalent of the Arc of Approach (2-J-3)."

So, for a swinger it might help to visualize the delivery line as basically the Plane Line- visualize it extending straight to the target (however, know that, in reality, it's a slight arc- Arc of Approach)...and trace it.

For a hitter, visualize the delivery line as going through the inside-aft quadrant of the ball, DOWN and OUT through low point, and straight out to "right field." Trace it. Drive your hands and clubhead down it.

"On Line Swing" vs. "Cross Line Hit."

If you have TGM...do yourself a favour and read 2-J-3. It's one page.

When driving down the crossline plane with Angled Hinging what does the clubface look like at the Top? Is it square to the crossline plane (slightly shut to the target line) or does it appear shut to even the crossline plane because of the "no roll" feel one employs on the downswing?