Uncocking the Left Wrist ThrowOUT . . .

Since we are Uncocking or better yet Extending the Lever Assembly On Plane . . . are we as a result not also Uncocking OUT as a result of the the motion being on an Inclined Plane???

So it is throwOUT . . . thowing Down AND OUT Downplane?

The Uncocking as a result of the Plane being on an angle should be down AND OUT to the Plane Line NO????

Good question.

On an incline plane. Down, Out and forward is the same direction. Off Plane is choosen one over the other.

The left had karate chop.
Has anyone tried this with the Medicus hinge club?

Originally Posted by mb6606 The left had karate chop.
Has anyone tried this with the Medicus hinge club?

Does it work?

Yes ,yes ,yes Bucket.
IMO this is one of the most difficult things for non TGM people to understand-a straight plane line and the release of #3 acc

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket Since we are Uncocking or better yet Extending the Lever Assembly On Plane . . . are we as a result not also Uncocking OUT as a result of the the motion being on an Inclined Plane???

So it is throwOUT . . . thowing Down AND OUT Downplane?

The Uncocking as a result of the Plane being on an angle should be down AND OUT to the Plane Line NO????

In my opinion, I'd word the above thoughts as follows (just a different way to look at it):

Regardless of plane, (inclined -steep, flat - , horizontal plane - Yoda practice) the uncocking of the flat left wrist is a Perpendicular Motion (2-P). That and only that. The uncocking of the left wrist is Lever Extension only (2-P).
Per 6-B-2-0 2nd Power accum (wristcock) "Cetrifugal force (is) available to acutate this assembly (the uncocking of the wrist - perpendicular motion).
When talking of of the wrist uncocking, no need to associate OUT. Centrifugal force is the Throw out. Centrifugal force or throw out is already in operation, as per reference above, cetrifugal force is available to accutate the uncocking of the wrist for velocity power.

Is the appearance of the uncocking down and out as a result of an inclined plane? Yes. SHOULD EFFORT be made to "make" specifically the uncocking down and out? No. The only thought should be of a Perpendicular Motion, as per 2-P.

Control direction (of throwout) via # 3 pressure point in right hand.

Originally Posted by SECGolf In my opinion, I'd word the above thoughts as follows (just a different way to look at it):

Regardless of plane, (inclined -steep, flat - , horizontal plane - Yoda practice) the uncocking of the flat left wrist is a Perpendicular Motion (2-P). That and only that. The uncocking of the left wrist is Lever Extension only (2-P).
Per 6-B-2-0 2nd Power accum (wristcock) "Cetrifugal force (is) available to acutate this assembly (the uncocking of the wrist - perpendicular motion).
When talking of of the wrist uncocking, no need to associate OUT. Centrifugal force is the Throw out. Centrifugal force or throw out is already in operation, as per reference above, cetrifugal force is available to accutate the uncocking of the wrist for velocity power.

Is the appearance of the uncocking down and out as a result of an inclined plane? Yes. SHOULD EFFORT be made to "make" specifically the uncocking down and out? No. The only thought should be of a Perpendicular Motion, as per 2-P.

Control direction (of throwout) via # 3 pressure point in right hand.

I think you are correct. However, I think throw out must happen on-plane . . . so it is On-Plane Throw Out. Throw Out can certainly be given over to CF for sure. But I think that many (me included) neglect to understand that the #3 Accumulator Roll/Swivel prior to Low Point is an OUTWARD motion. One of the most difficult things to learn is to Roll and Swivel while maintaining a relationship to straight Plane Line. I'm not sure that you can just turn that over to CF at least in the steeper learning curve portion of a G.O.L.F.er's life. If you Roll and Swivel underplane you just executed the #1 Snare . . . Steering. Uncock (extend the lever) down and out on plane to the plane line . . . roll out on plane to low point.

Another misconception that I think I'm starting to hatch in the incubator is that deemed #2 is the Velocity Accumulator . . . NOT because the uncocking happens fast. But because the Uncocking is simply an extension of the radius . . . and since the clubhead is at the end of the radius it speed is increased geometrically as a result of being further from the axis of rotation. So it is simply lever extension . . . not necessarily any great effort or need to happen "fast". As a result of the extension (fleeing from center) the clubhead's speed increases. But also as a result of the extension and the law of conservation of angular momentum, the angular velocity of the entire system slows down because the radius is extended. So you can't make it speed up around the CIRCLE but you will get speed as a result of the extension of the lever assembly with the clubhead being farther from the center of rotation.

So basically don't try to speed it up around the circle . . . you can't. Just extend the lever assembly DOWNPLANE and as a result the clubhead has to go faster. But the entire unit moves around the circle SLOWER in compliance with law. Angular Momentum = Mass X Angular Velocity X Radius . . . Radius is bigger . . . mass is constant . . . so Angular Velocity MUST go down inorder to conserve momentum. But the Tangential Velocity (linear velocity) is increasing because the point of the radius is farther from the center of the circle.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket I think you are correct. However, I think throw out must happen on-plane . . . so it is On-Plane Throw Out. Throw Out can certainly be given over to CF for sure. But I think that many (me included) neglect to understand that the #3 Accumulator Roll/Swivel prior to Low Point is an OUTWARD motion. One of the most difficult things to learn is to Roll and Swivel while maintaining a relationship to straight Plane Line. I'm not sure that you can just turn that over to CF at least in the steeper learning curve portion of a G.O.L.F.er's life. If you Roll and Swivel underplane you just executed the #1 Snare . . . Steering. Uncock (extend the lever) down and out on plane to the plane line . . . roll out on plane to low point.

Another misconception that I think I'm starting to hatch in the incubator is that deemed #2 is the Velocity Accumulator . . . NOT because the uncocking happens fast. But because the Uncocking is simply an extension of the radius . . . and since the clubhead is at the end of the radius it speed is increased geometrically as a result of being further from the axis of rotation. So it is simply lever extension . . . not necessarily any great effort or need to happen "fast". As a result of the extension (fleeing from center) the clubhead's speed increases. But also as a result of the extension and the law of conservation of angular momentum, the angular velocity of the entire system slows down because the radius is extended. So you can't make it speed up around the CIRCLE but you will get speed as a result of the extension of the lever assembly with the clubhead being farther from the center of rotation.

So basically don't try to speed it up around the circle . . . you can't. Just extend the lever assembly DOWNPLANE and as a result the clubhead has to go faster. But the entire unit moves around the circle SLOWER in compliance with law. Angular Momentum = Mass X Angular Velocity X Radius . . . Radius is bigger . . . mass is constant . . . so Angular Velocity MUST go down inorder to conserve momentum. But the Tangential Velocity (linear velocity) is increasing because the point of the radius is farther from the center of the circle.

Note: Im not TGM, but what would you say if the down cocking happens with slow down of hands-arm-shoulder ect. I think thats what your getting at. So am I right on the point if the down happens the out (pivot) will. Is it not? What would happen if the right arm is out of place (off plane) is that what you ment by steer? or roll out.
The reason I say this- lots of players I see over accelerate the hands and or right arm .

Originally Posted by cpwindow4 Note: Im not TGM, but what would you say if the down cocking happens with slow down of hands-arm-shoulder ect. I think thats what your getting at. So am I right on the point if the down happens the out (pivot) will. Is it not? What would happen if the right arm is out of place (off plane) is that what you ment by steer? or roll out.
The reason I say this- lots of players I see over accelerate the hands and or right arm .

Kinda. Here's what I'm saying . . . imagine you have a string with a weight on the end. You start swinging it around in a circle with some of the string still left in your hand. Now you let some of the string out so the radius effectively just got longer. Assuming uniform circular motion (you don't add torque or force to speed it up), angular momentum will be conserved. So when you had the relatively smaller circle the weight traveled faster in terms of RPMs. But once you extended the radius the RPMs (angular velocity) DECREASED inorder to conserve angular momentum (=MassXAngularVelocityXRadius). The mass is constant so when the radius gets bigger or smaller as a result the RPMs must increase or decrease accordingly. BUT . . . with the larger radius you are picking up Tangential Velocity as a result of the weight being farther from the center of rotation.

So basically radius increases then angular velocity decreases BUT tangential speed increases. This is what Homer meant by Surface Speed. The RPM of the entire system is decreasing as the radius is extended but clubhead speed surface speed increases geometrically as a result of the EXTENSION and not the effort to create more handspeed.

This is why Homer said the Swinger needs a quick start down. As a result of the lever assembly being out-of-line due to wrist cock it is easier to accelerate because its moment of inertia is smaller (think of the string deal with the smaller circle). With a smaller radius you can really get the thing whipping around (accelerating angularly) fast. So you have jacked up the rpms of the system via the out of line condition (shortened radius). Then as the lever assembly gets extented via the uncocking surface speed gets multiplied because the clubhead is further from the center. Thus Homer says the Swinger cranks the gyroscope and then just hangs on. You don't need to "add" you just need to EXTEND. The extension is the mechanical advantage via the conservation of angular momentum. It is LAW. Law don't take no lunch breaks.

Now as far as the steering question. Yes. I think the right arm can certianly cause steering (bending the plane line). But what I was talking about was the #3 accumulator left wrist rolling. I tend to roll it left thus bending the plane line rather than rolling it ON THAT LINE. See the video below . . .

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery...ry.php?cat=517 click "are you ready to roll on that line"

That's rolling out on plane while tracing a straight.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket I think you are correct. However, I think throw out must happen on-plane . . . so it is On-Plane Throw Out. Throw Out can certainly be given over to CF for sure. But I think that many (me included) neglect to understand that the #3 Accumulator Roll/Swivel prior to Low Point is an OUTWARD motion. One of the most difficult things to learn is to Roll and Swivel while maintaining a relationship to straight Plane Line. I'm not sure that you can just turn that over to CF at least in the steeper learning curve portion of a G.O.L.F.er's life. If you Roll and Swivel underplane you just executed the #1 Snare . . . Steering. Uncock (extend the lever) down and out on plane to the plane line . . . roll out on plane to low point.


But the Tangential Velocity (linear velocity) is increasing because the point of the radius is farther from the center of the circle.

I agree 110% about the need to "roll on line" and the associated difficultly. However, I lean very, very, much to strictly keeping identities separate. Throwout is what it is - cetrifugal force generated by the massive rotar (body). Keep this force related to any plane you choose by maintaining clubhead lag pressure and tracing with the #3 pressure point (passive use of clubhead lag pressure). Swinger's release swivel is what it is - actual rotation of hands, forearms. #3 Accumulator roll/hinge action is what it is. IDEALLY release swivel, # 3 accumulator roll/hinge action, specifically, simply ride one's chosen plane. Cetainly, executing these actions incorrectly, or adding to their identity can cause off plane motion (eg over-roll). So I don't know if I'd say #3 accumulator roll, swivel are Outward motions. They are what they are. Thiinking of these as outward motions, I believe, would cause over roll. Plane on which you direct force dictates outward. Perform swivel/ hinge action on this plane.

Great stuff about Tangential Velocity (linear velocity) - another thing I have to study.

Many times I have bashed the Bucket online here.

Not this time. Good post!

I would only add that for me the uncocking is a byproduct of the motion. The feel I get is that the left wrist cocks and remains so until both arms are straight. I can feel different hinge geometry, but not the uncocking its own self.

Originally Posted by SECGolf I agree 110% about the need to "roll on line" and the associated difficultly. However, I lean very, very, much to strictly keeping identities separate. Throwout is what it is - cetrifugal force generated by the massive rotar (body). Keep this force related to any plane you choose by maintaining clubhead lag pressure and tracing with the #3 pressure point (passive use of clubhead lag pressure). Swinger's release swivel is what it is - actual rotation of hands, forearms. #3 Accumulator roll/hinge action is what it is. IDEALLY release swivel, # 3 accumulator roll/hinge action, specifically, simply ride one's chosen plane. Cetainly, executing these actions incorrectly, or adding to their identity can cause off plane motion (eg over-roll). So I don't know if I'd say #3 accumulator roll, swivel are Outward motions. They are what they are. Thiinking of these as outward motions, I believe, would cause over roll. Plane on which you direct force dictates outward. Perform swivel/ hinge action on this plane.

Great stuff about Tangential Velocity (linear velocity) - another thing I have to study.

We are not at odds on this for sure . . . My postion as far as the OUT deal is this . . . I think I have been rolling underplane and for me it has to be OUT. And it is OUT as a result of going downplane on plane. So you are correct.

The only thing about swinging though is things happen so fast when the club changes ends that keeping the identies of swivel hinge swivel separate is difficult particularly with snap releases. So for me it is SLING it down and out on plane. I am having to focus on out because there ain't enough out there.

Originally Posted by Uppndownn Many times I have bashed the Bucket online here.

Not this time. Good post!

I would only add that for me the uncocking is a byproduct of the motion. The feel I get is that the left wrist cocks and remains so until both arms are straight. I can feel different hinge geometry, but not the uncocking its own self.

Great! One more moving to the dark side! Have a spine! Who cares if it is a good post! Bash the Bucket I say - Bash the Bucket! Everyone after me - "Bash the Bucket!"

Uppndownn- It's a slippery slope- trust me, next you'll have a Bucket of Chicken at the house that you'll be praying to-

My goal is to have that little Bucket Head- - and I won't stop until I accomplish my goal.

P.S. For all members of my Bucket Brigade- we do have our normal conference call on Wednesday at 4PM- just because it is th 4th of July, we can't prevent that from our assault planning. Please call in promptly at 4PM- signed your President.

Well,I have started reading TGM,I reckon Im going to have to read this about 4-5 times to get it in some order of understanding but I will.
On the basic and aquired,today,whilst I thought I was doing everything right,it didnt just feel right,BUT ,!!! click!!! The light came on,L/wrist uncocking,ALA,FLW from that point on, I could practice WITH confidence,and it feels Soooo good.Thanks forum

Help!

I may have uncovered a flaw in my action, and need help with curing it.

First, let me see if I understand the proper motion of the left wrist.

Correct left wrist action should be from level at address to cocked at or near end of backswing, then uncocking back to near level through impact and then finally uncocked to both arms straight.

Is this correct?

I seem to go from cocked to darn near uncocked through impact which results in a more toe down impact position than normal. This is not good.
It also weakens the leverage of the swing, and makes it more unlikely to get a real clean "hands forward" through impact motion.

I don't know how this motion developed, but it is there.
Anyone experienced this and how did you go about remedying it?

Thank you in advance,

UPP in beautiful Ohio

Originally Posted by Uppndownn Help!

I may have uncovered a flaw in my action, and need help with curing it.

First, let me see if I understand the proper motion of the left wrist.

Correct left wrist action should be from level at address to cocked at or near end of backswing, then uncocking back to near level through impact and then finally uncocked to both arms straight.

Is this correct?

I seem to go from cocked to darn near uncocked through impact which results in a more toe down impact position than normal. This is not good.
It also weakens the leverage of the swing, and makes it more unlikely to get a real clean "hands forward" through impact motion.

I don't know how this motion developed, but it is there.
Anyone experienced this and how did you go about remedying it?

Thank you in advance,

UPP in beautiful Ohio

Your left wrist should work exactly like a hammer . . . you are just turning and rolling (depending on grip type more or less roll).

Have you video taped your motion? Does it look lke throwaway? Is your left wrist bending?

You need to work with a dowel or a club and an impact bag. Place the bag at low point and pop it. Get the feeling of the club staying behind and below your hands. Check the drills forum out . . . there's some good impact bag drills there.

Get into a bunker and draw a line perendicular to your stance line . . . learn to uncock and make your divots in the sand on the left side of the line.

I have hit some balls at a range where they spray paint lines on the ground. . . . I place the ball behind the line and then try to erase it with my divot. You could do something similar.

Also hit pitches out of divots.

Bucks,

I agree with all you said.

I do take divots in front of the ball, not behind.

I have done the sand drills as outlined by Bobby Clampett.

My left wrist is flat or even a touch bowed through impact most of the time.

It is just too far uncocked. Not level.

This results in toe down impact with an iron.

It may be a matter of "re-educating my hands".

Surely I am not alone with this issue.

I reckon someone else has diagnosed this and figured out a therapy.

Help!

Thanks, UPP

Originally Posted by Uppndownn Bucks,

I agree with all you said.

I do take divots in front of the ball, not behind.

I have done the sand drills as outlined by Bobby Clampett.

My left wrist is flat or even a touch bowed through impact most of the time.

It is just too far uncocked. Not level.

This results in toe down impact with an iron.

It may be a matter of "re-educating my hands".

Surely I am not alone with this issue.

I reckon someone else has diagnosed this and figured out a therapy.

Help!

Thanks, UPP

Right Hand Karate Chop it.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket Right Hand Karate Chop it.

I'm starting to like Pressure Point #1 karate chop it. . But whatever works, the karate chop options are players preference.

If you are toe down and fully uncocked, you probably need to make sure you are not coming into impact with the right forearm above plane.

As you know by know, I am not TGM certified but I am liking what I've been learning over the past year or so. My investigation of the book is limited....but I have to ask....

Is this wrist action you are talking about exclusive to a snap release? I use more of a sweep release and am wondering if the same effects are true to the above descriptions?

Originally Posted by Uppndownn Help!

I may have uncovered a flaw in my action, and need help with curing it.

First, let me see if I understand the proper motion of the left wrist.

Correct left wrist action should be from level at address to cocked at or near end of backswing, then uncocking back to near level through impact and then finally uncocked to both arms straight.

Is this correct?

I seem to go from cocked to darn near uncocked through impact which results in a more toe down impact position than normal. This is not good.
It also weakens the leverage of the swing, and makes it more unlikely to get a real clean "hands forward" through impact motion.

I don't know how this motion developed, but it is there.
Anyone experienced this and how did you go about remedying it?

Thank you in advance,

UPP in beautiful Ohio

You know this is happening because A) you saw it on video? or B) because you noticed that you were taking divots with the toe down? or C) some other reason or combination of items.

Too bad you can't post some video.

Check your swing or practice swing- when you arrive at the finish position are you straight up and down or do you have some or a lot of side bend still? i.e. retained your spine angle.

Up,

I can only think that perhaps it is ball position. Bring the ball back a bit.

With any “Throw,” the action has no guidance or control- no braking, steering or stopping. A Throw has trust in alignments.

If you are fully uncocked at impact then alignments need adjustment.

Try this: Over lap the Throw or acc2 Release with the Transfer Roll, acc3. The clubhead will get to impact faster because of Endless Belt and your Impact position will improve.


I always had the other problem- I never fully uncocked. I found working on my Horizontal Hinge action - my Rhythm- did wonders. Maybe that would help you too.

Originally Posted by Uppndownn Bucks,

I agree with all you said.

I do take divots in front of the ball, not behind.

I have done the sand drills as outlined by Bobby Clampett.

My left wrist is flat or even a touch bowed through impact most of the time.

It is just too far uncocked. Not level.

This results in toe down impact with an iron.

It may be a matter of "re-educating my hands".

Surely I am not alone with this issue.

I reckon someone else has diagnosed this and figured out a therapy.

Help!

Thanks, UPP

Upp...

I'm not qualified to have an answer but.......there is always a but.... I have a good friend who does what you appear to describe...... his problem is throwaway... he doesn't keep the right wrist bend long enough ....along with angular hinging in a swing... he has little swivel, so basically just at impact the wrists are just uncocking (almost violently) and the left wrist is slightly bending, just after impact the divot is taken and the toe is leading down into the ground.

Thanks for all the replies.

I diagnosed the problem on an impact lie board. Toe down impact appearing with a visually on plane motion.

I was left hand karate chopping and impact was just not pure like, say, a month before.

I am happy to report progress in taking into consideration your replies and noting my address position had my hands "high" and my wrists slightly arched.
That arch in the left wrist seems to be what was appearing through impact.

I have practiced basic motion and some acquired motion with this in mind, "look , look, looking" at my address. I seem to be on the road to recovery. An A1 probably would have spotted this right out, but I have not been able to locate any here in NE Ohio.

I have about 300 basic motion repetitions under my belt at this point. Aiming for Yoda's "a coupla thousand" !

UPP in steamy Ohio