Questions that I need cleared up?

For the past year and a half I have struggled with pulls.

Here are the concepts I have been working on that seem to be helping.

1) Not letting my right shoulder go down and out as much as I felt in the past. I do a lot of start down waggles and feel my right shoulder go down just slightly. From there my arms swing past my body.

2) Try to keep the rotation of my body more passive.

3) Feeling the left wrist unlock more inside the plane line, which I believe keeps the clubhead more inside the plane line, but then I feel my clubhead travel more toward the plane. I still believe it is downward outward and forward.

4) Lastly, I feel that am getting to both arms straight alittle sooner. In the past I believe I kept my right elbow overly bent and left wrist too cocked and a bit arched, which caused some roundhousing.

I would really like to hear some thought on this.

Lastly, How soon do you feel your left wrist begin to uncock?


Nathan

Instead of hitting it from behind at the back (to hit it straight), try to hit the ball from the inside at the inside corner.

"I Had an Amazing Practice today!!!! But I still have a quesetion.
Today on the range was the best practice I believe that I have ever had. I start with about 30 mins of basic and aquired motion, then I went into 8iron 6iron 2iron and driver, around 300 balls total. The sound and flight were so amazing. But I still have a question.

I was monitoring my right shoulder and how it loaded my PP#4. Then alittle later I was monitoring the place that my left shoulder was positioning its self as I came into impact. It felt like it was moving up and back some, and it felt like my right shoulder moving properly was causing this.

Just wanted to know if anyone else has had this feeling, or if this is dicussed somewhere in the greatest book ever?"

Nathan, do you remember writing this post? I happened to be reading it last night after doing a search of the right shoulder...you were on a roll back then...what happened? You should go back and read your own stuff...It was pretty inspirational!

Pulls = closed clubface...
right arm less bent / both arms straight too soon

sounds like you maybe flipping ...

and by not sending your right shoulder down ( which you currently say is helping)...well, maybe that is the problem.

Right shoulder not down enough = run out of right arm = clubface closed...etc

DO the 300 ball drill that you did in your old post - you won't have forgotten what to do! Good luck

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but you don't want to have an overly bent right arm at impact.

A right shoulder that moves to much down will create too much right arm, thus causing someone to round house to get to the ball.

Nathan

The right arm can straighten quicker, as long as the right wrist remains bent, this is more compatible with the "swingining left" concept

Originally Posted by tbyeaton0627 The right arm can straighten quicker, as long as the right wrist remains bent, this is more compatible with the "swingining left" concept

so.. do you mean swinging right should be .. arm straighten later.. and right wrist does it straigthens or remains bent?..

Originally Posted by nuke99 so.. do you mean swinging right should be .. arm straighten later.. and right wrist does it straigthens or remains bent?..

Yes, but the more right you swing, the less the wrist bend

Originally Posted by ndwolfe81 For the past year and a half I have struggled with pulls.

Here are the concepts I have been working on that seem to be helping.

1) Not letting my right shoulder go down and out as much as I felt in the past. I do a lot of start down waggles and feel my right shoulder go down just slightly. From there my arms swing past my body.

2) Try to keep the rotation of my body more passive.

3) Feeling the left wrist unlock more inside the plane line, which I believe keeps the clubhead more inside the plane line, but then I feel my clubhead travel more toward the plane. I still believe it is downward outward and forward.

4) Lastly, I feel that am getting to both arms straight alittle sooner. In the past I believe I kept my right elbow overly bent and left wrist too cocked and a bit arched, which caused some roundhousing.

I would really like to hear some thought on this.

Lastly, How soon do you feel your left wrist begin to uncock?


Nathan

First thing to look at - the right forearm at impact fix. Is it too high, is the right wrist 'level'?

A few other potential causes:

clubface closed/left wrist arched at the top

shoulder alignment at address is open and/or right hand grip is too weak

Ball position too far forward

Body rotation is stopping - keep that pivot moving! (try setting your left foot open about 30 degrees at address)

Post some video if you can.

Originally Posted by ndwolfe81 For the past year and a half I have struggled with pulls.

Here are the concepts I have been working on that seem to be helping.

1) Not letting my right shoulder go down and out as much as I felt in the past. I do a lot of start down waggles and feel my right shoulder go down just slightly. From there my arms swing past my body.

2) Try to keep the rotation of my body more passive.

3) Feeling the left wrist unlock more inside the plane line, which I believe keeps the clubhead more inside the plane line, but then I feel my clubhead travel more toward the plane. I still believe it is downward outward and forward.

4) Lastly, I feel that am getting to both arms straight alittle sooner. In the past I believe I kept my right elbow overly bent and left wrist too cocked and a bit arched, which caused some roundhousing.

I would really like to hear some thought on this.

Lastly, How soon do you feel your left wrist begin to uncock?


Nathan

Nathan,
Interesting post - as items 1-4 that you are working on for not pulling the ball - would normally be items one would work on if they were trying not to push the ball. However, after envisioning your four items and how they might stop you from pulling the ball- my guess would be that all of them might tie in well with "standing up" from the top to impact i.e. losing your "waist bend". Just a wild guess on my part. However, if I were right then you've stopped the pulling by creating compensations that counter act the original unsolved issue (whatever that may be). If that were the case then you'd want to do the opposite of items number one through four and then find out what stops the pulls while you are doing those.

Since you don't have video- it's best that you figure out what to work on or what information that might be helpful for you, as it could be one of a million issues or combination of issues. And any particular post to help - could be way off base (including this one!)

Mike O

Consider the following two statements-:

1) Not letting my right shoulder go down and out as much as I felt in the past. I do a lot of start down waggles and feel my right shoulder go down just slightly. From there my arms swing past my body.

2) Try to keep the rotation of my body more passive.

I would have also thought that those two actions would predispose to pulling, rather than correct a pulling problem.

This represents my attempt at logical reasoning - correct me if I am wrong.

If one doesn't maintain right shoulder thrust downplane during the downswing, then one will run of out of right arm, and the momentum of the moving club will likely produce slight flipping through impact, which will close the clubface and predispose to pulling. By contrast, if one maintains right shoulder thrust donwplane, then one can more easily maintain a bent right elbow and bent right wrist as one nears impact. Then, the straightening right elbow (complete release of power accumulator #1) during the exact moment of first ball impact will keep the clubface slightly open as one aims towards the inside quadrant of the ball. That should prevent a pull, and produce a straight ball flight if the clubface is square at the exact moment of ball-clubface separation. The same logic applies to having a too-passive torso rotation in the late downswing. If the torso slows, the arms will whip past the slow-moving torso and produce flipping. By contrast, if one maintains an active torso rotation through impact, then it is more easy to drive all the power accumulators to a full release post-impact.

Here are two comparative photo sequences to illustrate my point.



In this Hogan photo-series, Hogan is turning his torso very well through the late downswing and followthrough and driving his arms to the both-arms-straight end-followthrough position by inducing a full release of all his power accumulators via the biomechanical mechanism of an excellent downswing pivot action.



In this photo-series of an elderly golfer who has a slow, and incomplete, torso rotation through the impact zone, his arms simply flip through the impact zone and he also has chicken-winging due to i) insufficiently forceful release of his power accumulators to a both-arms-straight position and ii) due to a lack of sufficient extensor action through impact.

Jeff.

Originally Posted by Jeff Mike O

Consider the following two statements-:

1) Not letting my right shoulder go down and out as much as I felt in the past. I do a lot of start down waggles and feel my right shoulder go down just slightly. From there my arms swing past my body.

2) Try to keep the rotation of my body more passive.

I would have also thought that those two actions would predispose to pulling, rather than correct a pulling problem.

This represents my attempt at logical reasoning - correct me if I am wrong.

If one doesn't maintain right shoulder1)thrust downplane during the downswing, then one will run of out of right arm, and the momentum of the moving club will likely produce slight flipping through impact, which will close the clubface and predispose to pulling. By contrast, if one maintains right shoulder thrust donwplane, then one can more easily maintain a bent right elbow and bent right wrist as one nears impact. Then, the straightening right elbow (complete release of power accumulator #1) during the exact moment of first ball impact will keep the clubface slightly open as one aims towards the inside quadrant of the ball. That should prevent a pull, and produce a straight ball flight if the clubface is square at the exact moment of ball-clubface separation. The same logic applies to having a too-passive torso rotation in the late downswing. If the torso slows, the arms will whip past the slow-moving torso and produce flipping. By contrast, if one maintains an active torso rotation through impact, then it is more easy to drive all the power accumulators to a full release post-impact.

Here are two comparative photo sequences to illustrate my point.



In this Hogan photo-series, Hogan is turning his torso very well through the late downswing and followthrough and driving his arms to the both-arms-straight end-followthrough position by inducing a full release of all his power accumulators via the biomechanical mechanism of an excellent downswing pivot action.



In this photo-series of an elderly golfer who has a slow, and incomplete, torso rotation through the impact zone, his arms simply flip through the impact zone and he also has chicken-winging due to i) insufficiently forceful release of his power accumulators to a both-arms-straight position and ii) due to a lack of sufficient extensor action through impact.

Jeff.

In general- I agree.

Assuming you might want more details - and if I were to nitpick a little with a few of my thoughts. I wouldn't use the term thrust - as I would view it more of a right shoulder location- whether the shoulder has thrust or not- if it gets to a location in space where the right arm doesn't straighten beyond the impact requirements then it would be fine- if it does straighten more and the upper right arm adducts across the chest more than intended and you get more internal rotation of the humerus and also more than intended right forearm pronation causing the face to close- whether you have deceleration (throwaway) or not.

The other term that "I" wouldn't use myself as you did - is the term flipping- as that in my mind means the left wrist breaking down- i.e.. bending, which definitely would close the face but I'm invisioning these items as closing the face primarily and not really causing "flipping" that closes the face.

Those are just a couple of thoughts from my perspective- posted in the hope that they might give you some added value. In other words, their posted in the light of learning and not attacking. Assuming we're here to learn- I'm sure you'll use the information or ignore it as you see it's relevance or lack there of.

However, you'll notice that I don't treat 12 Piece Bucket with the same respect - as he is incapable of learning! His IQ is similar to that of a hot dog on a barbecue! I'm requesting Bagger to block 12 Piece from all further quotations of any of my posts- immediately! Finally, you are way to kind- I think it's OK to have full disclosure and let the entire forum know that the 2nd swing sequence is in fact 12 Piece Bucket himself.

Originally Posted by Mike O Nathan,
Interesting post - as items 1-4 that you are working on for not pulling the ball - would normally be items one would work on if they were trying not to push the ball. However, after envisioning your four items and how they might stop you from pulling the ball- my guess would be that all of them might tie in well with "standing up" from the top to impact i.e. losing your "waist bend". Just a wild guess on my part. However, if I were right then you've stopped the pulling by creating compensations that counter act the original unsolved issue (whatever that may be). If that were the case then you'd want to do the opposite of items number one through four and then find out what stops the pulls while you are doing those.

Since you don't have video- it's best that you figure out what to work on or what information that might be helpful for you, as it could be one of a million issues or combination of issues. And any particular post to help - could be way off base (including this one!)

Mikey . . . could be a face pull as a result of the standing up . . . standing up will lay the shaft down . . .but also disrupts #3 which will make the face rotate fast . . . could be the face wrapping around the ball.

Stankbutt

I am going to shoot some video and put it up this evening, I would love to hear some of your thoughts on what I might want to direct my attention towards.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket . . standing up will lay the shaft down . . .

Stankbutt

Dear Stankbutt,
please explain in some detail the above quote - I'd like to understand that- and also how you see that impacts the clubface.
Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Mike O Dear Stankbutt,
please explain in some detail the above quote - I'd like to understand that- and also how you see that impacts the clubface.
Thanks in advance.

Dookyball . . .

Try it . . . get your club make a SLOW startdown . . . when your left arm starts moving towards parallel to the ground . . STAND UP out of your posture . . . your pelvis or hips or whatever go toward the plane line . . . like when you "help the goats over the fence" . . . watch what the shaft does . . . it "lays down" or "flattens out". . . and the butt of the club is raised up. From there you have to do something weird with your hands to get to the ball . . . like flip or have less #3 angle that you intended. . . with less #3 angle the face rotates FAST . . . if you stand up out of your posture early you probably will have a tendency to hit blocks, fast hooks and face pulls.

Ok I got some video, I will have it up in a bit.

I fight pulled shots, any help for you guys will be great.

Hopefully it will help the other guys out also.

Nathan



I started a need thread in the emergency room swingers, so hopefully more people will provide input.