Ted Fort's Hitting Stroke -- Pitching Wedge (Down The Line)

Originally Posted by Yoda Welcome to our inaugural Golf Stroke anaysis using The Analyzer by Dartfish, one of the world's premier sports analytics programs. You will find an Announcement at the top of this Forum that gives some tips to jump-start your familiarity with this learning tool. This is a sophisticated program, and I highly recommend you read that announcement prior to using The Analyzer for the first time.

When you're ready, just click on Media
and learn from the Hitting Stroke of Ted Fort, a.k.a. Luke the Nuke!

Wow

Really nice...Thank You

Yoda,

You teach me fanning the right forearm on the takeaway, but it seems that Ted does not have much fanning at the beginning and the clubface appears to be closed going back, very much like twisting away, and closed at the top. Why is that?

nice work yoda.

This is FANTASTIC!!!!!! I love this place!!!!!

Teddy Ballgame is looking sweet!!!!

The program is cool. Superb commentary too Dr. Collards. This will do wonders in "bringing the Book to life."

Dr. Hit,

This stroke is a bit reminiscent of Hal Sutton. Very nice. No wasted motion. The Hit Template has been served.

You have to tell everyone your story again too. It would be great to see kind of like an extreme makeover type thing. The before Collards and the after Collards.

Great job! I know you worked hard and it looks like a Sunday TV stroke.

Many many thanks! This is going to be a fun ride!

Bucket

P.S. When are we going to be able to have our own swings trashed?

Way cool- I even got it to work with my Firefox brower.


Check out Ted's left foot. That puppy is glued to the ground. Boom.

Thanks again Yoda and the powers that be for more golf goodies. This is a very cool program.

No doubt about compression there. Interesting to see what to me looks like a bit steeper swing than I would generally associate with a hitter, less cross line - accurate -

Do you find that you fight pulls at all under pressure? (just curious)
How is your distance and trajectory control?

Some SERIOUS spin out of that move I'm sure! I can see why you said 45's and not 22's

Very Sweet !

Has all the imperitives and essentials per 2-0.... all he needs

I also was curious about how closed the clubhead appeared to be on the back swing. This is something I have been trying to change, maybe I'm on the wrong track??

Originally Posted by rwh A beautiful action. The video almost looks to be at less than full speed. The words that come to mind are "deliberate" and "heavy", per 3-F-6.

I think the video played in the Viewer is a slightly slower than normal speed. If you click on the Windows media icon to the left of the viewer controls, it will come up in Windows Media Player in regular speed.

Something good happening around here every day!
Thank you again! =D> =D> =D>

What can one say? Definitely the bar has been raised regarding golf forums since the debut of Lynn Blake Golf.

I noticed that we have three very active forums regarding breaking out new stuff.

I have to say this site is tracking right along with the engery of the man... What's next Yoda?

Now we are talking, great stuff team!!!!!!


Some points i have noted


Use the play button on the left for proper speed, the other is slightly slower than realtime i think wich doesn't quite show the full power of the stroke.

The benchmark TGM hitting stroke has a very upright plane, and i love where the club stops as i am not overly flexible.

It is amazing just how quiet Ted's body is, both going back and coming thru! This is undoubtably a hands controlled pivot, and it is very easy to see the concept. No great turning motion, no great slide of the body or hips, no lunging or lack or balance. To see how quite his body is concentrate on his right foot!!!! Talk about sublime!


The other big thing to hit me is just how EASY and UNCOMPLICATED the model is, considering the trouble many of us have with the bok and catching some of the concepts the end result is remarkably simple and concise. Talk about precision G.O.L.F.



Thank you Yoda, team and of course Ted, keep up the great work and i can't wait for a side view

Yoda,

Your comments on the Start-Up section in your precision analysis of Dr. Hit's Stroke are particularly incisive. The biggest fog lifter is the right forearm picking the club up as DEAD WEIGHT. I have a tendency to yank the club inside and then raise it up. Dead Weight thoughts get the club going back, UP and in simultaneously on-plane . . . stress on the UP part for me.

Thanks! My wife also had some Dead Weight commentary for me, but those were not quite as inspirational.

All the best,

Dead Weight Bucket Slop

Danny,

Ted is using the Angle of Approach procedure with its steep Plane (2-J-3-B) and you are using the geometric Plane Line (the straightline baseline of the Turned Shoulder Plane). Therefore, his Angled Hinging appears to Fan less than yours -- Angled Hinging on a steep Plane approaches Vertical Hinging -- even though you are both using the same procedure.

Also, he hits the Ball very hard, and the Ball stays on the Clubface longer. Therefore, the Slice producing characteristic of Angled Hinging is greater than normal, and to compensate, he must Close the Clubface more than normal.

You're on the right track, Danny. Stay with it.[/quote]

Yoda,

1-L, #6. The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other.

Ted's impact alignments are MARVELOUS, and even though his procedure does not follow the above dictum to the full extent ...aren't predictable impact alignments the end that we all should be seeking?

EC

Originally Posted by EdZ No doubt about compression there. Interesting to see what to me looks like a bit steeper swing than I would generally associate with a hitter, less cross line - accurate -

Do you find that you fight pulls at all under pressure? (just curious)
How is your distance and trajectory control?

Some SERIOUS spin out of that move I'm sure! I can see why you said 45's and not 22's

Like I've said before, my distance has increased greatly over the last year. My trajectory has changed to the point that I can truly hit it as low as I'd ever want. (the so called "Tiger stinger.") I've hit a couple of shots lately that I'd never been able to do...7 Iron from 160, 25 mph headwind, elevated green, no sidespin, to 4 feet. I don't know if the thing got anymore than head high, and I felt like I ended at follow-through. What wind?! And, yes, the spin rate is very high, making ball selection very important.

Originally Posted by YodasLuke What wind?! And, yes, the spin rate is very high, making ball selection very important.

Ted I also generate a high spin rate. What ball ended up being your ball of choice ?

Originally Posted by Yoda

Originally Posted by RickPinewild I also was curious about how closed the clubhead appeared to be on the back swing. This is something I have been trying to change, maybe I'm on the wrong track??

I'll let Ted comment further on his Clubface alignment, but remember...

The Hitter using Angled Hinging aligns the Clubface Closed at Impact Fix (2-J-1). It therefore should come as no surprise that the Closed alignment is maintained throughout the Stroke.

I'll have to agree with my mentor, and most importantly with this shorter club, the clubface should look a little closed. With the ball position being placed farther away from low point and making the clubface square as I assume my impact fix and impact address, the shorter clubs have to look closed. I'm touching the ball well before low point. As I move the ball position forward for the longer clubs, the clubface would not look as closed.

Originally Posted by EC Danny,

Ted is using the Angle of Approach procedure with its steep Plane (2-J-3-B) and you are using the geometric Plane Line (the straightline baseline of the Turned Shoulder Plane). Therefore, his Angled Hinging appears to Fan less than yours -- Angled Hinging on a steep Plane approaches Vertical Hinging -- even though you are both using the same procedure.

Also, he hits the Ball very hard, and the Ball stays on the Clubface longer. Therefore, the Slice producing characteristic of Angled Hinging is greater than normal, and to compensate, he must Close the Clubface more than normal.

You're on the right track, Danny. Stay with it.

Yoda,

1-L, #6. The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other.

Ted's impact alignments are MARVELOUS, and even though his procedure does not follow the above dictum to the full extent ...aren't predictable impact alignments the end that we all should be seeking?

EC[/quote]

I'm extremely happy with my impact alignments, especially from the front. I've got a couple of recent videos that I've compared to Trevino, and I'm happy to say I look like I'm copying his impact alignments. If there's anyone that I want to look like when I'm touching the ball, it's him.
I'm not perfect, nor would I ever claim to be, but I'm much further along the 'Journey'. I'm also happy to say that I'd never been able to do such wondeful things in such a short amount of time without my proud Papa, Lynn Blake, a.k.a. Yoda, Mac Daddy, Da Man, The Genius, The Legend, the one and only Homer Reincarnate.

Thanks to all of you for your kind words and encouragement.

Originally Posted by Yoda

Originally Posted by tgmer Yoda,

You teach me fanning the right forearm on the takeaway, but it seems that Ted does not have much fanning at the beginning and the clubface appears to be closed going back...and closed at the top. Why is that?

Danny,

Ted is using the Angle of Approach procedure with its steep Plane (2-J-3-B) and you are using the geometric Plane Line (the straightline baseline of the Turned Shoulder Plane). Therefore, his Angled Hinging appears to Fan less than yours -- Angled Hinging on a steep Plane approaches Vertical Hinging -- even though you are both using the same procedure.

Also, he hits the Ball very hard, and the Ball stays on the Clubface longer. Therefore, the Slice producing characteristic of Angled Hinging is greater than normal, and to compensate, he must Close the Clubface more than normal.

You're on the right track, Danny. Stay with it.

Well YOda I love the site and I am really working hard indoors until golf season to improve my game, using video each time ot to see my feels so to speak to turn my mechanics into feel. Unfortunately it seems whatever I do leads to a shut cross the line position at the top. I see here you are talking about a fanning movement in the backswing whereas Ted is taking it back shut and not allowing this fanning to occur. I am sure bothare acceptable variants even in hitting, but is there a way to know whihc one is better for me to try to emulate? Also any ideas how to correctly incorporate the fanning movement without bringin the club too inside going back?

Would love to hear from you!

You need to learn how to trace a straight plane line...

use some lasers or some flashlights

For the purpose of education, would you comment relative to 2-F Plane of Motion:
"Whenever the clubshaft is parallel to the ground it must be parallel to the base line. Otherwise, the end of the club that is closest to the ground must point at the base line of the inclined plane."

DRW

Originally Posted by Yoda Eddie,

For the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure, the 'old' Plane Angle with its Straight Line Baseline is gone. It served its purpose by locating the Stroke's Impact Point and Low Point. Through these two points passes its derivative -- the Straight Line Angle of Approach Delivery Line. This Visual Equivalent thus determined, the original Plane ceases to exist (2-J-3).

The Hitter with his Clubhead now Covers -- not Traces or 'points at' -- this new Delivery Line. And whatever Inclined Plane the Sweetspot must utilize to make this journey is now the Inclined Plane of the Stroke.

Whoa.....!!!Holy crap....

That is some deep dep stuff!

[quote=EC][quote="Yoda"]

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
Yoda,

The "New" inclined plane still has a straight baseline doesn't it? And, wouldn't the low end of the club either point at or cover it, or the clubshaft would be parallel to it? I'm just trying to reconcile in my mind the geometry of having the clubshaft on plane. Not to pick on Ted (I LOVE his motion), but I was originally asking that if we looked at each of the still positions of his video, aren't there times when the club is off plane by definition? Quite frankly, I think that impact is where it's at, but I spend a lot of time with students working on plane, and I do not want to misinform any of them, ever.]

Congrats to you, Bagger, and Trigolt...this site is a wonderful experience!

EC

I see EC's point....

Originally Posted by Yoda Eddie,

For the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure, the 'old' Plane Angle with its Straight Line Baseline is gone. It served its purpose by locating the Stroke's Impact Point and Low Point. Through these two points passes its derivative -- the Straight Line Angle of Approach Delivery Line. This Visual Equivalent thus determined, the original Plane ceases to exist (2-J-3).

The Hitter with his Clubhead now Covers -- not Traces or 'points at' -- this new Delivery Line. And whatever Inclined Plane the Sweetspot must utilize to make this journey is now the Inclined Plane of the Stroke.

Lynn,
EC has a good point...

Are you saying that, once the original planeline is established...it ceases to exist for the Hitter and the 'new' delivery line???

Confused!!!

Thanks,
Patrick

This is an area of confusion I also have to sort out.

Lets see if I can put this clearly.

For the Hitter using Angle of Approach procedure, the Angle of Approach effectively becomes the new Plane Line. Every stroke has to have a straight Plain Line, and for the Hitter, this has now become Angle of Approach. Just look at 10-5-E. That is exactly what I mean. How Closed your new Plain Line is depends how far your ball is behind Low Point.

Now, when you're making a golf stroke on an Inclined Plane, you are, by default, also tracing its Plane Line (whether that Plane Line is the basic geometric plane line of the Angle of Approach). See photo in 10-5-E.

So I would say that although the Hitter sees the Clubhead visually (it's not actually covering- because the Plane would have to be vertical for that to happen!) covering his new Plane Line (the Angle of Approach), he is actually Tracing is also.
Just look at 10-5-E.
How can she be swinging on that Inclined plane and not trace or point at this Angle of Approach? Impossible! This contradicts what Yoda was saying - that the Hitter does not Trace this new Delivery Line, but just covers it. However, I believe Yoda was trying to make a different point...but I just don't know what it is.

Originally Posted by tongzilla For the Hitter using Angle of Approach procedure, the Angle of Approach effectively becomes the new Plane Line. Every stroke has to have a straight Plain Line, and for the Hitter, this has now become Angle of Approach. Just look at 10-5-E. That is exactly what I mean. How Closed your new Plain Line is depends how far your ball is behind Low Point.

Agreed my friend!!!

Originally Posted by tongzilla Now, when you're making a golf stroke on an Inclined Plane, you are, by default, also tracing its Plane Line (whether that Plane Line is the basic geometric plane line of the Angle of Approach). See photo in 10-5-E.

Keep in mind...its the 'new' plane....thats whats confused me...the original is still intact, no? Arbitrarily....

Originally Posted by tongzilla So I would say that although the Hitter sees the Clubhead visually (it's not actually covering- because the Plane would have to be vertical for that to happen!) covering his new Plane Line (the Angle of Approach), he is actually Tracing is also.

Close...

How can you see the angle of approach if you arent in a position to see it? Does the clubhead cover it???



Just look at 10-5-E.
How can she be swinging on that Inclined plane and not trace or point at this Angle of Approach? Impossible! This contradicts what Yoda was saying - that the Hitter does not Trace this new Delivery Line, but just covers it. However, I believe Yoda was trying to make a different point...but I just don't know what it is.[/quote]

Hmm...not sure...I think, in the angle of approach procedure...the hitter still traces the original planeline....which confuses the hel outta me!!!!!!!!!!!

Not Yoda but here is a drill Yoda had me do that I discovered helped

Also any ideas how to correctly incorporate the fanning movement without bringin the club too inside going back?

He had me put a piece of rubber tubing under the ball of my left foot and then with the right hand draw it tight to the my normal address. From there it was ALL RIGHT ARM up to the top. Fanning and turning. No shoulder assist or movement. We were working on my adopting the Turned Shoulder Plane at the time (I needed to understand the Flat Shoulder Turn in the Backstroke). I discovered the following

1. You need to move this up the Inclined Plane
2. If the tubing comes in contact with your legs or body, you did it wrong, you are too deep, too inside.
3. Stopping at the Top, Right Wrist bent, Left Wrist Flat, Flat agains the Plane.

This really helps working the right arm for the right forearm takeaway.

I have heard some refer to this move as pulling the cord on a lawnmower. If you have done that before,then the drill comes pretty easy.

Wow great minds think alike. After watching the video I was doing somemirro work and I sad hmm it reminds of the lwanmower thing which is giving me the back and up and my shoulder turn seems to provide the in. This was great and all but as with Ted, it still felt shut or hooded. I figured the fanning was a motion like forearm roation to allow the clubhead to be parallel with the left forearma dn hence square at the top, rather than closed.

Am i missing somethinog or does this shut lawnmower feel after momentum of a full swing cause the arms to rotate on their on too square?,,,

He had me put a piece of rubber tubing under the ball of my left foot and then with the right hand draw it tight to the my normal address. From there it was ALL RIGHT ARM up to the top. Fanning and turning. No shoulder assist or movement. We were working on my adopting the Turned Shoulder Plane at the time (I needed to understand the Flat Shoulder Turn in the Backstroke). I discovered the following

1. You need to move this up the Inclined Plane
2. If the tubing comes in contact with your legs or body, you did it wrong, you are too deep, too inside.
3. Stopping at the Top, Right Wrist bent, Left Wrist Flat, Flat agains the Plane.

This really helps working the right arm for the right forearm takeaway.

I have heard some refer to this move as pulling the cord on a lawnmower. If you have done that before,then the drill comes pretty easy.
_________________
Good Golfing
Martee

Martee, thanks for sharing this drill! I think that it will provide great help and feedback for anyone trying to learn the RFP vs. shoulder turn. How long should the rubber hose be? How big (diameter)? I assume this is something you can get at any hardware store....

This is something I am trying to work on (RFP), since I now am way to inside on the startup and backstroke...sounds like a drill that would be good for me.

Thanks!

Keith

Martee, thanks for sharing this drill! I think that it will provide great help and feedback for anyone trying to learn the RFP vs. shoulder turn. How long should the rubber hose be? How big (diameter)? I assume this is something you can get at any hardware store....

This is something I am trying to work on (RFP), since I now am way to inside on the startup and backstroke...sounds like a drill that would be good for me.

Thanks!

Keith

How long? How big in Diameter? Well the piece I use is about 8 feet in length and 3/8" in diameter. The tubing is one of those exercise tubes but without any handles. Now it don't have to be that long and for diameter I am guessing it can be a bit bigger.

Here is the length and it will vary a bit between golfers.

Place one end of the tube so the left foot covers (4"). Then while holding it with the right hand take your normal address position. Remove the slack out of tubing. I then make it taunt just a bit. The more taunt you make it from this position the more effort it will take to get it to the top.
So a 3 foot piece should to it for anyone.

There are other exercises/drills that can be done with this tubing. You can wrap it around the left shoulder and down the left arm. Practice the backstroke with holding it both hands or just the right hand, the tube should stay taunt -- Entensor action

Where is VICKIE???? I bet she can provide a few resistance exrecises using a tube. There are a few product out on the market that advocate resistance tubes. Golf Gym is one but there are others as well as just a good old piece of tubing.

I have found a number of them that are good for general conditioning and golf not to mention when you get a Yoda or Joe D. to provide you with some drills for speific golf functions. Heck Yoda who has a dowel rod in everyroom (no kidding) has a tubing set up in one room with a whole bunch of mirrors so when he walks by he just stops and does the drill for a few minutes, and is Always, Always Looking, Looking, Looking.

Originally Posted by Yoda

Originally Posted by EC Yoda,

1-L, #6. The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other.

Ted's impact alignments are MARVELOUS, and even though his procedure does not follow the above dictum to the full extent ...aren't predictable impact alignments the end that we all should be seeking?

Eddie,

For the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure, the 'old' Plane Angle with its Straight Line Baseline is gone. It served its purpose by locating the Stroke's Impact Point and Low Point. Through these two points passes its derivative -- the Straight Line Angle of Approach Delivery Line. This Visual Equivalent thus determined, the original Plane ceases to exist (2-J-3).

The Hitter with his Clubhead now Covers -- not Traces or 'points at' -- this new Delivery Line. And whatever Inclined Plane the Sweetspot must utilize to make this journey is now the Inclined Plane of the Stroke.

Yoda,

This got me a little lost. Is this description the Cross Line (to Right Field) Angle of Approach with the line through Impact and Low Point?

Sorry me so stoopid.

Thanks!

R

How should these swing sequence clips be used to examine basic plane angles and shifts? I want to draw the TSP at address and work from there. My "eye" which is imature is having difficulty applying the book photos to these clips and drawing any conclusions.

DRW

[quote="Yoda"][quote="12 piece bucket"]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Originally Posted by EC Yoda,

1-L, #6. The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other.

Ted's impact alignments are MARVELOUS, and even though his procedure does not follow the above dictum to the full extent ...aren't predictable impact alignments the end that we all should be seeking?

Eddie,

For the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure, the 'old' Plane Angle with its Straight Line Baseline is gone. It served its purpose by locating the Stroke's Impact Point and Low Point. Through these two points passes its derivative -- the Straight Line Angle of Approach Delivery Line. This Visual Equivalent thus determined, the original Plane ceases to exist (2-J-3).

The Hitter with his Clubhead now Covers -- not Traces or 'points at' -- this new Delivery Line. And whatever Inclined Plane the Sweetspot must utilize to make this journey is now the Inclined Plane of the Stroke.

Yoda,

The "New" inclined plane still has a straight baseline doesn't it? And, wouldn't the low end of the club either point at or cover it, or the clubshaft would be parallel to it? I'm just trying to reconcile in my mind the geometry of having the clubshaft on plane. Not to pick on Ted (I LOVE his motion), but I was originally asking that if we looked at each of the still positions of his video, aren't there times when the club is off plane by definition? Quite frankly, I think that impact is where it's at, but I spend a lot of time with students working on plane, and I do not want to misinform any of them, ever.]

Congrats to you, Bagger, and Trigolt...this site is a wonderful experience!

EC

Will we be able to see a side view of Ted's swing? Maybe he could wear some lighter colored clothing?

Thanks