The Tomasello Tapes -- Chapter Three / The Hands

awesome awesome awesome stuff!!!!!!!!!!

I'm going to post this on every forum that just doesn't understand the difference between cocking and bending.

If this isn't TGM hand position for dummies then i don't what could be.

Talk to your webmaster yoda....i know brian has his site up this way where if you link something inside it...say even a thread it won't direct link you. It will re-direct you to the "please login/register" page.

I'm sure its something simple.

Also Chuck's site is that way.

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Edit:

Just wanted to confirm that you are correct in that if i "direct link" someone to the video it will still run. So just ask your webmaster to change that for you.

Jim

Originally Posted by jim_0068 Talk to your webmaster yoda....i know brian has his site up this way where if you link something inside it...say even a thread it won't direct link you. It will re-direct you to the "please login/register" page.

I'm sure its something simple.

Also Chuck's site is that way.

---------------

Edit:

Just wanted to confirm that you are correct in that if i "direct link" someone to the video it will still run. So just ask your webmaster to change that for you.

Jim

It's already set up that way. If you provide a link to the forum and someone isn't registered, they will be taken to the "public" forum page. That's the default. Just direct link'em to the forum. Tell them they need to register first. This is a great club, they may never leave!

Bagger

great video, tom seems like a really good teacher its interesting that the move he shows is exactly the same as hennie bogans waggle

Originally Posted by Bagger Lance It's already set up that way. If you provide a link to the forum and someone isn't registered, they will be taken to the "public" forum page. That's the default. Just direct link'em to the forum. Tell them they need to register first. This is a great club, they may never leave!

Bagger

But the vidoes don't reside "in the forum." As it is now you can give a direct link to the Gallery.

I linked to the Hogan video on rec.sport.golf but the link was to the thread. I thought Lynn's intoduction was a great lead in to the video. Several people commented on how great the video was and only one complained about having to register so I assume the rest joined. Hopefully they're sticking around.

I'm very interested in Tomasello's description in this video of trying to unbend the right wrist from release point (or at least from where the right arm reconnects to the body). Obviously he doesn't think it is possible to lose all of the bend, but I was still surprised by this. Does anyone have any comments? Delaware Golf - do you use this procedure - is it recommended?

By the way, can I add my voice to all the others praising this site. I am constantly amazed by the quality of content here. The Hogan home video was fantastic but this Tomasello series is truly a dream come true. Thanks!

Chris

Im following this with interest.....

Its great to see these and im enjoying it very much....

I will post observations when I get a chance to .....

On the point of the forum access..... I would make sure that not a single section showed and that it immediately asked thel members to register vs seeing a few sections (which it is currently is at the moment). This is mainly down to people not understanding and mistaking that there is more to see if they register....this merely spells it out them.....

It should be possible with a little research to have the gallery password protected to the usernames and passwords attached or an alternative - you could have a gallery as a forum section.... and the links posted on a thread each....

The TT series is really good.
His passion for teaching really comes
out in tape segment 3.
Also thanks to Delaware Golf for
sharing this with all of us.
=D>

Originally Posted by Delaware Golf

Originally Posted by ChrisNZ I'm very interested in Tomasello's description in this video of trying to unbend the right wrist from release point (or at least from where the right arm reconnects to the body). Obviously he doesn't think it is possible to lose all of the bend, but I was still surprised by this. Does anyone have any comments? Delaware Golf - do you use this procedure - is it recommended?

By the way, can I add my voice to all the others praising this site. I am constantly amazed by the quality of content here. The Hogan home video was fantastic but this Tomasello series is truly a dream come true. Thanks!

Chris

Remember....the hands don't move the hands...the action at release should be with the muscles of the right forearm (Magic of the Right Forearm)....it's right forearm thrust per 7-3 (study 7-3)...you drive the right forearm to a LONG right arm...so, what Tommy is saying....with an extensor action follow thru you won't be able to put your right wrist into a throw-away condition (because your left hip...if allowed to is moving out of the way, when driving the right forearm down and out at release... just let that left hip move out of the way...)


The fun has only started...Tommy has more revelations on the way (and drills to practice)....just sit back and enjoy the show....

Thanks again Yoda (and your staff) for putting this together, it's been a blast watching it unfold in a chapter series...

DG

Is this where Croker and Martin Green got "try to unbend the right wrist as hard as possible into the ball" from?

Originally Posted by mgjordan Is this where Croker and Martin Green got "try to unbend the right wrist as hard as possible into the ball" from?

Dear Mr. Jordan,

The use of the right hand is more as a "karate chop" action from the change of direction down and out in to the ball.
This action promotes the left hip rotation throughout the downswing and all the way through impact,follow through, and into the finish.
The direction of the wrist release is in alignment with the clubshaft to left arm (for right handed golfers).

This has the Pressure Point #1 of the upper hand / wrist area "pushing" down and out in the direction of the ball, while the #3 Pressure point assists the "uncocking" action of the hands and maintaining the clubshaft to left arm alignment through impact and well into follow through.

To my way of looking at the right hand action, the flattening action of the right hand occurs as the wrists move from level towards fully uncocked as you release deep into follow through.
Because of the flat left wrist caused by the uncocking action, the right hand can never move into a fully flat condition while the clubshaft remains in line with the left arm.

Correct use of the "pressure points" in the correct sequence and direction will guarantee that the right wrist can never arch and the left wrist never bend as you release down, out, and through the golf ball.

I do not advocate any attempt to consciously move the right wrist from bent towards flat in the hit of a golf ball. I do recommend uncocking and swivelling the wrists in the release down and out into the ball.

Hope this helps clarify the right hand action in the downswing from the Croker Golf System viewpoint.

Enjoy the Hit!

Peter Croker

Originally Posted by Peter Croker Dear Mr. Jordan,

The use of the right hand is more as a "karate chop" action from the change of direction down and out in to the ball.
This action promotes the left hip rotation throughout the downswing and all the way through impact,follow through, and into the finish.
The direction of the wrist release is in alignment with the clubshaft to left arm (for right handed golfers).

This has the Pressure Point #1 of the upper hand / wrist area "pushing" down and out in the direction of the ball, while the #3 Pressure point assists the "uncocking" action of the hands and maintaining the clubshaft to left arm alignment through impact and well into follow through.

To my way of looking at the right hand action, the flattening action of the right hand occurs as the wrists move from level towards fully uncocked as you release deep into follow through.
Because of the flat left wrist caused by the uncocking action, the right hand can never move into a fully flat condition while the clubshaft remains in line with the left arm.

Correct use of the "pressure points" in the correct sequence and direction will guarantee that the right wrist can never arch and the left wrist never bend as you release down, out, and through the golf ball.

I do not advocate any attempt to consciously move the right wrist from bent towards flat in the hit of a golf ball. I do recommend uncocking and swivelling the wrists in the release down and out into the ball.

Hope this helps clarify the right hand action in the downswing from the Croker Golf System viewpoint.

Enjoy the Hit!

Peter Croker

G’day Peter,

How’s the weather down under. Getting chilly I bet.

Before I put in my two cents, I would like to say that I’ve visited your website and admire the way you bring and continue to represent TGM to our Mates Down Under.

I hate to, but must disagree on a couple of points. I don’t think that the #3 pressure point should assist to help uncock the left wrist. Actually I think strongly enough against that procedure to recommend being consciously aware of not doing it. My interpretation is that the #3 pressure point is “dragging” and “aiming” only and any intention to do otherwise may result in bad impact habits and clubhead throwaway. Furthermore, if the right wrist remains level throughout the start down, release and impact, then one has a better chance to promote good hinge action and uncocking of the flat left wrist will occur solely as the result of centrifugal force.

In another post, you mention Hogan’s wish to have three right hands. In my opinion it’s because Momentum Transfer was slowing his hands and creating extra pressure against his right hand during the Roll Procedure. He would use his right leg and right hand, not pressure point #3 to push back. Of course the ball was in all likelihood almost gone before the message from his brain got back to his hands to apply pressure but I’m certain it helped him continue swinging through low point and beyond.

Straightening the right hand during and after full extension is not necessary. Properly executed Hinging and swinging through low point to full extension dictates a further hand roll which swivels them parallel to and back on plane but flattening the right wrist may be mostly habit or a residual force from pushing #3 through impact rather than pulling it. The right wrist may stay bent till the finish as long as the hands lead the clubhead. With short shots and vertical hinging the flattening need not occur.

Originally Posted by Daryl G’day Peter,

How’s the weather down under. Getting chilly I bet.

Before I put in my two cents, I would like to say that I’ve visited your website and admire the way you bring and continue to represent TGM to our Mates Down Under.

I hate to, but must disagree on a couple of points. I don’t think that the #3 pressure point should assist to help uncock the left wrist. Actually I think strongly enough against that procedure to recommend being consciously aware of not doing it. My interpretation is that the #3 pressure point is “dragging” and “aiming” only and any intention to do otherwise may result in bad impact habits and clubhead throwaway. Furthermore, if the right wrist remains level throughout the start down, release and impact, then one has a better chance to promote good hinge action and uncocking of the flat left wrist will occur solely as the result of centrifugal force.

In another post, you mention Hogan’s wish to have three right hands. In my opinion it’s because Momentum Transfer was slowing his hands and creating extra pressure against his right hand during the Roll Procedure. He would use his right leg and right hand, not pressure point #3 to push back. Of course the ball was in all likelihood almost gone before the message from his brain got back to his hands to apply pressure but I’m certain it helped him continue swinging through low point and beyond.

Straightening the right hand during and after full extension is not necessary. Properly executed Hinging and swinging through low point to full extension dictates a further hand roll which swivels them parallel to and back on plane but flattening the right wrist may be mostly habit or a residual force from pushing #3 through impact rather than pulling it. The right wrist may stay bent till the finish as long as the hands lead the clubhead. With short shots and vertical hinging the flattening need not occur.

Daryl,

I believe your interpretation of what Peter is saying about pressure point #3 is incorrect. Hopefully, if Peter reqularly checks this website, he can give you the facts. In the meantime, check section 10-11-0-3. For the procedure that Peter teaches, pressure point #3 is a passive indirect drive.

DG

Originally Posted by Delaware Golf Daryl,

I believe your interpretation of what Peter is saying about pressure point #3 is incorrect. Hopefully, if Peter reqularly checks this website, he can give you the facts. In the meantime, check section 10-11-0-3. For the procedure that Peter teaches, pressure point #3 is a passive indirect drive.

DG

"The use of the right hand is more as a "karate chop" action from the change of direction down and out in to the ball.
This action promotes the left hip rotation throughout the downswing and all the way through impact,follow through, and into the finish.
The direction of the wrist release is in alignment with the clubshaft to left arm (for right handed golfers).

I believe this to be true as though it were born to me.

This has the Pressure Point #1 of the upper hand / wrist area "pushing" down and out in the direction of the ball, while the #3 Pressure point assists the "uncocking" action of the hands and maintaining the clubshaft to left arm alignment through impact and well into follow through.

Bold by me. This is where I disagree. But maybe I misunderstand. Does indirect and passive (10-11-0-3) mean "assists" in the uncocking action of both hands?

"...the right hand can never move into a fully flat condition while the clubshaft remains in line with the left arm."

Agree, and well said.

"Correct use of the "pressure points" in the correct sequence and direction will guarantee that the right wrist can never arch and the left wrist never bend as you release down, out, and through the golf ball."

I could not agree more.

"I do not advocate any attempt to consciously move the right wrist from bent towards flat in the hit of a golf ball."

Peter is a true believer. So am I.

"I do recommend uncocking and swivelling the wrists in the release down and out into the ball."

I have to agree, but only with the left wrist portion of this statement.

"Hope this helps clarify the right hand action in the downswing from the Croker Golf System viewpoint."

It does. In the Croker system, they seem to cock both wrists. "#3 Pressure point assists the "uncocking" action of the hands" (Hands = Plural) So maybe 98% of the world agrees with Peter.

Originally Posted by Delaware Golf Daryl,

I believe your interpretation of what Peter is saying about pressure point #3 is incorrect. Hopefully, if Peter reqularly checks this website, he can give you the facts. In the meantime, check section 10-11-0-3. For the procedure that Peter teaches, pressure point #3 is a passive indirect drive.

DG

Dear Daryl,

Paul Hart has just produced a TGM Component analysis of the Croker Golf System. I am sure this will be of interest to TGM students. The Pressure Points and their direction and sequencing are fully defined.

Kind regards,
Peter

Another great clip. Thanks to Yoda, DG, the staff, and of course the late Tomasello for bringing it out in the public. Cheers.

Originally Posted by Yoda Anybody got an idea how to best do this? We're going to have a ton of this stuff in the future, and it would be nice to have some standardized linking procedure to attract permanent members to the site -- not just quick hits.

IMO, very good video - but without the book and your exellent explanations of the left hand/right hand wedges - and the reminders of pressure point #3 - it has limited value. Limited and good enough to create considerable interest.

It could serve well as a nLBG teaser on other sites: For more info about the .... goto www. lynnblakegolf.com etcetera.

Originally Posted by dclaryjr

Originally Posted by Bagger Lance It's already set up that way. If you provide a link to the forum and someone isn't registered, they will be taken to the "public" forum page. That's the default. Just direct link'em to the forum. Tell them they need to register first. This is a great club, they may never leave!

Bagger

But the vidoes don't reside "in the forum." As it is now you can give a direct link to the Gallery.

A quick check of your webserver indicates it should be capable of mapping certain requests (ie. movies) to some code (php) that could validate the user and kick them to the forum home page if they aren't registered and logged in. The only down side is that you wouldn't be able to view those same items in your "gallery" without being a registered, logged in user of the forum (good?/bad?). I'd be glad to help w/ any of this if you need me.

My first thought watching this was it encourages the right wrist straightening...like the Croker system maybe does...does anyone know if this is where Croker got it from?

Originally Posted by Toolish My first thought watching this was it encourages the right wrist straightening...like the Croker system maybe does...does anyone know if this is where Croker got it from?

No...Tomasello does not encourage straightening the right wrist, in fact, Tomasello promotes the opposite, a bent right wrist through impact...any flattening of the right wrist is a post impact condition.

DG

Dear Toolish,

The Right Wrist moves towards flat in the post impact area as both wrists fully uncock deep into follow through. I explain this in more detail in reply to Mr. Jordan.
Tom Tomasello was the greatest coach and instructor I ever had. His use of the right hand in this instance was to show how difficult it was to "unbend" the right hand while driving the pressure against the clubshaft and firing the clubhead down and out into the golf ball.
Ben Hogan was one of his hero too and he mentioned that "Why would Hogan wish he had 3 right hands to hit with unless he wanted to use them?"

Hope this helps clarify this area of action for you.

Enjoy the Hit!

Peter Croker

Originally Posted by robert_w Hi,

I have viewed the Peter Croker Site a few times for about the past year and just noticed the Tom Tomasello videos he has put on his site. Wow!!!

I downloaded the 9 videos (Tom in Australia 1989) and have used them with ease when practicing. I also searched for information
on Tom T. and came across this site. I joined right away.

My question from the videos is about the golf grip he recommened.

Can someone recommend a grip to buy? I have a spare 7 iron that I use at the range that I leave in the trunk of my car and would like to regrip it. I know there are several grips out there, but they seem to be endorsed by certain pros and was not sure if I would be copying their handgrip style vs. the one Tom T. was suggesting.

Thanks,

Robert W.

Dear Robert W,

The grip on Tom's short club was a standard moulded training grip as can be brought from most golf shops and repair outlets.

It certainly is a great benefit for all to help hands - clubface alignment.

Kind regards,
Peter

Dear Robert,

It is a small world! Those of us that look for the simple truths are never very far apart.
May I invite you to attend one of our TGM/CGS schools downunder or in the USA, Europe, or Thailand.

I promise you will not be disappointed.

Kind regards,
Peter Croker