From a setup position do the shoulders turn parallel to to the ground or perpendicular to the spine. Which I take it to mean the left shoulder turns toward the ball. Is this right?
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket Depends on the plane angle and hand path and knee action and hip action . . . . basically what components and variations you choose.Helpful 12PB!!
but accurate I guess...Originally Posted by golfbulldog Helpful 12PB!!
The 2 options in the real world are :-
- backswing either rotated shoulder turn (90 degrees to spine) or flat shoulder turn (to postion right shoulder on plane)...
- downswing - both of the above should have "on plane" shoulder turn.
If that is correct...it begs the question what are the differences in the backswing...which components go with which etc...
There is some line about rotated shoulder turn achieving same plane as flat shoulder turn at top/end...but it all depends on waist bend or something...
If waist bend is key then that is all knees and hips...like 12PB said...
Need some wisdom to understand how it works together...not me sadly...
Originally Posted by jerry1967 Your getting confused!! I still don't understand how to swing my shoulders in the backswing.Maybe it is something you just experiment with between the 2 versions - rotated...and flat...I don't think it matters anywhere near as much as getting it on plane on the downswing....
Originally Posted by golfbulldog See, as predicted...poke Bucket and he gives up the goods! Thanks!
The right shoulder has a role to play in the downswing. The precise alignment it requires in an on plane downswing is to be "on plane"...same as hands...at least in a nonshifting downswing?
So work out what plane angle you want in downswing...then put your right shoulder in that position during the backswing...
The "flat shoulder turn" is to be used for any plane angle flatter than rotated...according to the book...
If you look at rotated shoulder players...MORAD style I think...?? there hands go pretty deep...
now I'm getting confused again...
Originally Posted by jerry1967 From a setup position do the shoulders turn parallel to to the ground or perpendicular to the spine. Which I take it to mean the left shoulder turns toward the ball. Is this right?Hi Jerry, this is my way (with "shoulders turn perpendicular to the spine"), the easy, natural, simple and reliable way.
Originally Posted by bts Hi Jerry, this is my way (with "shoulders turn perpendicular to the spine"), the easy, natural, simple and reliable way.Dear BTS,
Good luck and have fun!
NOTE: An On-Plane Shoulder Turn destroys the Right Forearm Flying Wedge. Same with the Rotated Shoulder Turn. Or, you may choose to destroy the Left Arm Flying Wedge in some cases and Keep the Right Forearm Flying Wedge but you can't have both. The Right Shoulder must comply with The Flying Wedges which comply with the Hands, which comply with the Swing Plane. Without the Flying Wedges, you're a two-Barrel-Swinger or One-Barrel-Hitter. (for all of you Hitters out there, who can't hit the Ball as far as you can when you swing, check your Flying Wedges. This misalignment isn't allowing you to pressurize the #2-3 combination or else the Shaft would be Off-Plane.)Originally Posted by Daryl Dear BTS,Thanks for the classification and clarification, which are very instructional, indeed. I'll definitely work on "the Magic of the Right Forearm" and EA stuff and see the difference.
That was a very nice video, thank you for sharing your procedure and thoughts.
However, what you think you do, and how you think you do it, and what you really do, are each a little different. Well, I sure know what I'm talking and doing, so are the "Cause and Effect", despite scoring low in TGM terms, which I apologize if any confusion was thus created. Again, I just want to make it as simple as posible. And it's just my way, or.
First, when you demonstrate the Rotated shoulder Turn, by standing upright, and include Arm Motion on the same Plane as the Shoulder Turn, you are demonstrating an "On-Plane" shoulder Turn and not a "Rotated Shoulder Turn". I see. Yet, I don't remember mention "Rotated Shoulder Turn" in my swing, did I?.
Second, You do not use a Rotated Shoulder Turn. You have a "Standard Shoulder Turn", which is a Flat Backstroke and an On-Plane Downstroke Right Shoulder. And a very good one.
Your Backstroke uses a Shoulder Turn Takeaway. So, you shift Planes on the Backstroke and pull your Right Forearm off-Plane. I don't, instead, the "Law" or the club does. Your Right Forearm is way high at Release.You mean the right forearm or club shaft?
Your Right Forearm is not providing guidance for the Downstroke or Release Interval. Your Perfectly On-Plane Right Shoulder during the Downstroke is moving the Left Shoulder which guides the Left Arm and Hand and #2 Pressure Point into Release.
I don't know enough to give an accurate analysis and only having one swing with one club, I literally use the same procedure (my way of "Swinging") for all clubs.I cannot list your Component Variations with any certainty, but:
Plane Angle: Downstroke; 10-6-D #B, "Turning Shoulder Plane" Downstroke with On-Plane Right Shoulder.
Shoulder Turn: 10-13-A, "Standard Shoulder Turn"
Please don't take any of this as rude or negative, and I know that you can shoot scratch Golf and win tournaments with your procedure. I only meant it to be instructional.