VJ-The Putting Arc

mgjordan
VJ,
Is the Putting Arc training aid curved? If so, doesn't that go against a straight plane line?
armourall
Jordan,

Think of the Visual Arc of the Clubhead. That's what the Putting Arc duplicates. The Arc may not be as EXACT as a Plane Line, since it will vary slightly for any given person.
mgjordan
Wouldn't it just be easier to practice putting with a plane board? Lynn told me that it is easier to practice and play tracing a straight plane line that covering the visual arc.

With that said, there is no argument from me that the Putting Arc hasn't helped many good putters on Tour become even better. Obviously it has. Just searching for some understanding.
armourall
I agree with your thoughts on the Plane Board as a training aid... for those of us who know G.O.L.F.

Can you imagine trying to convince the average golfer that they should use a straight board to produce a curved stroke?

The Putting Arc is indeed a good product and I've heard many positive comments about it.
mb6606
I use a 1" by 10" by 3 ft pine plank propped up to the correct incline with a couple of barbells. The right forearm takeaway - flat left wrist is the key.
mgjordan
Originally Posted by armourall I agree with your thoughts on the Plane Board as a training aid... for those of us who know G.O.L.F.

Can you imagine trying to convince the average golfer that they should use a straight board to produce a curved stroke?

The Putting Arc is indeed a good product and I've heard many positive comments about it.
Yeah. Hearing people talk about a "straight back straight through" stroke irritates me because they have it half right and half wrong. All strokes are, in fact, straight back and straight through because you are tracing a straight line. However, since we are standing to the side of the ball, the clubhead must curve. Straight back and straight through is 'pointing', not 'tracing'. I don't see why people are convinced a putting strokes covers the target line when no other stroke does.
Homerson
MG,

It IS an option!
Spine parallel to the ground(at the neck). Left shoulder 'rocks straight at the ball of your left foot, then back up(vertically), which has hands moving straight back and through, and hence putter.

So, it is an option,
Cheers
mgjordan
Originally Posted by Homerson MG,

It IS an option!
Spine parallel to the ground(at the neck). Left shoulder 'rocks straight at the ball of your left foot, then back up(vertically), which has hands moving straight back and through, and hence putter.

So, it is an option,
Cheers
For me, it has just never been a natural thing. I used to try Pelz' method and it ruined my putting. I still am nowhere close to the putter I used to be and I am confident it is because I messed with the straight back and through stroke. I just don't see good players do it.
Homerson
Pelz stressed a straight back and straight through stroke by virtue of a bad combination of incorrect shoulder motion and an exaggerrated vertical hinge(reverse roll of the arms!).

Proper straight back and straight through putting requires the shoulders moving around the horizontal spine, with angled hinging.

Yes, it would feel 'unnatural'. Firstly because Pelz's pils stroke is flawed. Secondly because every change you make to your previous habit will feel 'unnatural'. And if you're not convinced of a change, you won't make it.

Cheers,[/quote]
dclaryjr
There are pros who subscribe to the Pelz putting stroke. It seems to me, however, that the only way to have a perfectly in line stroke, without doing some kind of manipulation, would require having a shaft that is perpindicular to the ground. You can't do this legally unless you put your putter head in enough of a "toe down-heel up" position to make up for the minimum 10ยบ bore angle required by USGA.
vj


That was the look on everyone's face in the early 90's. Pelz has this robot with a bunch of PGA Professionals in the stands. He takes a tin can, puts it thirty feet away from perfy, and perfy hits the tin can time after time. THE ONLY PROBLEM WAS THAT PERFY DID NOT FIT HUMAN ANATOMY.
dclaryjr
Originally Posted by vj

That was the look on everyone's face in the early 90's. Pelz has this robot with a bunch of PGA Professionals in the stands. He takes a tin can, puts it thirty feet away from perfy, and perfy hits the tin can time after time. THE ONLY PROBLEM WAS THAT PERFY DID NOT FIT HUMAN ANATOMY.
Although Pelz is getting a lot of press because of his association with Mickelson, it sure seems like Utley's stock is rising from what I've read.
EdStraker
Originally Posted by vj

That was the look on everyone's face in the early 90's. Pelz has this robot with a bunch of PGA Professionals in the stands. He takes a tin can, puts it thirty feet away from perfy, and perfy hits the tin can time after time. THE ONLY PROBLEM WAS THAT PERFY DID NOT FIT HUMAN ANATOMY.
That must be what I saw a few years ago in Silicon Valley when I was playing golf at Spring Valley Golf course when Pelz was conducting a clinic.

I thought to myself the human body cannot accomodate the postition the tin man is portraying.
vj
MG,
Begin working on your stroke at home with a plane board or putting arc. Try and give it 60 repitions a day for 30 days. While playing, just putt. The difficult thing about golf is changing the habit. Knowledge is everything, but it will not make a permanent change until you acquire the habit's motion through repetition.

0068,
I took a look at lindseygolf.com. They know there stuff don't they. I was really impressed with their research. I will try and get one of their putters and let you know what I find here.
Homerson
Vj,Mg,

Just wanted to add to your, Vj, comments on repetition. It IS necessary, but it is not the only means to create new habits. Association, creating a clear concept in your mind, and even infusing some emotion into the learning process all help in expediting the learning and habit formation.

I also remember an Australian Rules football coach saying:-

"Practice makes perfect is b...s..t,
Only perfect practice makes perfect"

Cheers,
dcg1952
Last year Sports Illustrated Golf Plus section did a review of Stan Utley's teaching of the putting stroke and it showed a series of pictures of Tiger from behind. It showed the toe of the putter opening slightly as it came back, straight at impact, and toe closing slightly in the follow through. Two nights later I see Dave Pelz on the Golf channel with the magnificent Perfy showing the "straight back, straight through" stroke followed by a clip of a pro supposedly doing this---the pro was Tiger. And while Mr. Pelz was commenting about how the putter is going straight back, the clip clearly shows the toe opening!! I just chuckled. Oh well, he has a Gulfstream and I fly Air Tran.
VJ, question about the Putting Arc. I have adopted the Jack Nicklaus putting set-up and, with Yoda's help a couple of weeks ago, now have only movement of my right arm while putting (bends at the elbow going back and then push forward to straight right arm after impact). Would the Putting Arc be of value for this type of stroke?? Thanks, Dr Dave
Yoda
Originally Posted by dcg1952
VJ, question about the Putting Arc. I have adopted the Jack Nicklaus putting set-up and, with Yoda's help a couple of weeks ago, now have only movement of my right arm while putting (bends at the elbow going back and then push forward to straight right arm after impact). Would the Putting Arc be of value for this type of stroke?? Thanks, Dr Dave
Hi Dave,

Nice to see you in cyberspace! Ain't science wonderful?

I know you've queried V.J., but since I'm the guy who got you in the Push Basic (10-3-C) mode, please humor me with this response.

In the Push Basic Stroke, the Right Elbow is positoned in an 'Up and Out' (from the Right Hip) location. From there, the Right Forearm -- courtesy of the bending (but not Fanning) Right Elbow -- moves along the line that it is positioned, with the Hands always remaining between the Elbow and the Ball. In other words, if the Forearm is positioned pointing at the Plane Line (as is most often the case), it moves directly away from that 'pointing toward' point on the Backstroke and directly toward that 'pointing toward' point on the Downstroke.

As a practice drill, execute this motion with the Clubshaft remaining in contact with the edge of a picnic bench or another such low siderail. While the Right Forearm Thrust of the Stroke is very definitely Cross-Line (toward -- and not along -- the Plane Line), the Clubshaft will Trace a Straight Plane Line, and the Clubhead will move in an Arc -- the Arc of Approach. This is The Putting Arc.

Now you have a choice:

1. You may monitor the Curved Clubhead Blur through Impact -- the Putting Arc -- or...

2. You may Trace the Straight Plane Line (2-0-B-#3 and 1-L-#6).

My suggestion?

Do both and gain a true understanding of the Geometric Straight Plane Lineand also its Visual Equivalent, the Arc of Approach (2-J-3).
dcg1952
Thanks Yoda-----As always, each explanation from you lifts a little more fog. I'll give both a go this week. Have fun in Augusta! Dr Dave
vj


Dr. Dave, the putting arc will not fit you utilizing this plane angle. However, we do custom make wooden arcs. You can contact (vj@troliogolf.com) and I will get the custom order sheet to you.
dcg1952
Thanks VJ! I'll contact you soon. Thanks for your help. Dave