george knudson swing against a grid

If you havent seen this before here is a nice swing and a few thoughts that may sound familiar.



Enjoy.

It always amazes me to see some of these guys have their head go down in the backswing.

Originally Posted by O.B.Left If you havent seen this before here is a nice swing and a few thoughts that may sound familiar.

Enjoy.

Man thats good stuff O.B. ! I hate to sound like a broken record, but I see a lot of the Trolio pivot in that swing!

Kevin

Originally Posted by KevCarter Man thats good stuff O.B. ! I hate to sound like a broken record, but I see a lot of the Trolio pivot in that swing!

Kevin

Me too. Trolio studied Hogans Pivot, Knudson studied with Hogan and Homer studied Hogan way way back, so its not a stretch to say they both have what we here would describe as Homer's Hip Slide with a Delayed Turn. A Cleared Right Hip going back and then Cleared again going down via a Hip Slide (its in there twice after all in 12-3-0 points 13 and 24 and I think they are slightly different "clears" maybe, please discuss if you disagree).

What Im noodling these days is whether this second "clear" via the Slide, assuming that is correct, allows the 6-M-1 Downstroke Sequence, feet up, without any Roundhousing? As if the Right Hip is back far enough and slid far enough towards the target that you can 6-M-1 and not get stuck? If you know what I mean.

I also see Knudson taking that Hogan right foot drag to a new extreme. In his later years George was dragging the right foot about a foot or so! I love that move. Hogan did it, Knudson taught it...... to his students up here in T.O. Its not unusual to see some old guys playing up here with that move. A tell tail sign of some time on the range with George. I dont think Hogan ever talked about it, perhaps its another one of his secrets. George sure talked about it. Preached it in fact.

Originally Posted by O.B.Left Homer's Hip Slide with a Delayed Turn

I dont understand this, what is a delayed turn? Is it a pre-turn? My dang big arse right hip is always in the way, on thing that can often help is to push it left a little at set up, kinda braced against the left side.

Originally Posted by gmbtempe I dont understand this, what is a delayed turn? Is it a pre-turn? My dang big arse right hip is always in the way, on thing that can often help is to push it left a little at set up, kinda braced against the left side.

Greg, you need to spend a little time with YODA, it gets a little confusing, but I'll give it a shot.

From the 6th Edition

10-15-B DELAYED
The Shoulders lead and power the Backstroke Hip Turn - or at least lead. The Hips then take over and lead and power the Down-stroke Shoulder Turn. Use this Hip Turn to prevent overswinging. Turn the Hips a predetermined amount - or none at all - and then “semi-lock” them at that point before starting back with either the Shoulders or the Club. This will stop the Shoulder Turn at any preselected place, tighten the Left Side tension and set the stage perfectly for the Hips to initiate the Down-stroke Shoulder Acceleration. But remember, the shorter the Backstroke Turn, the steeper the Plane Angle (10-13-D). See 2-N and 7-17.

First, I prefer to think of it as EDUCATED HANDS lead and power the shoulders which lead and power the hip turn. Same principle, different "feel." Thanks YODA...

What Yoda taught me last summer, and it was HUGE for me, and is for you as well as are very similar, is that even though the educated hands lead and power the backstroke, we need a little bump to the right of the hip with a touch of a hip turn FIRST so the hands can go where they want to. If we don't start with that slight little bump and turn, our hands get directed by the right hip being in the way and no amount of education can help. The hands then take over the backstroke along with The Magic Of The Right Forearm.

Clear as mud? Probably, but I'm trying my friend.

Yoda, Please Help!



Kevin

Kev,

So if I were to take my setup square to the target, the "bump" would just be a very slight move with my right hip to begin the swing...or is the hip moved in the setup and then the hands take the club back?

Originally Posted by gmbtempe Kev,

So if I were to take my setup square to the target, the "bump" would just be a very slight move with my right hip to begin the swing...or is the hip moved in the setup and then the hands take the club back?

Your choice!

Another very good instructor of the Machine teaches setting the hips a little closed at address for hitters.

Yoda taught it to me as a more dynamic move, it actually puts my swing in motion. Greg, your hips could travel a little more on the backstroke, just like me. That's why I feel we are similar, among other things. If you start the swing with this little bump hopefully it will free up your hips a little as it did for me. I don't "feel" this freedom when I set up closed, I need to make it happen.

Kevin

Originally Posted by KevCarter Man thats good stuff O.B. ! I hate to sound like a broken record, but I see a lot of the Trolio pivot in that swing!

Kevin

Watch the left knee start the downswing. Of all the things I think he got from Hogan, that is it. Not quite the same dynamics as Schlee, but the same result coming down.

Originally Posted by EdZ Watch the left knee start the downswing. Of all the things I think he got from Hogan, that is it. Not quite the same dynamics as Schlee, but the same result coming down.

WOW EdZ. I was so focused on watching the hips, that I missed that completely. Great observation!

Thanks,
Kevin

True Swinger
Pivot controlled Hands
A good reason to quit smoking

He put out a great book and video that these pictures come from. His number one key was a flat left wrist. He also prescribed the pivot as the key to this condition. Sounds familiar huh? His video and book are quite good. Died way too young, chain smoker. He also was renowned as a free spirit on tour. Hogan once chewed him out for having his hair too long. Probably touched his ear. Great swing for somebody from Winnipeg that played five months of golf a year as a kid.

Originally Posted by EdZ Watch the left knee start the downswing. Of all the things I think he got from Hogan, that is it. Not quite the same dynamics as Schlee, but the same result coming down.

Totally agree with ya EdZ. I think that in the era of Knudson he might have added a touch of knee drive to what Hogan might have done as a Hip Slide. Just a theory coming from an old knee driver that'll never get those years back. It was in vogue after all.

Here is an article that I have on file, no mention of knees but it sure looks like there is some additional knee drive in one of those photos. A little extra gravy on Hogan's potatoes maybe?

PS I have a feeling that Yoda would teach this a Hip thing not a knee thing. Which begs another question about 6-M-1. If you Slide the Hips as a first move does this mean you have shortened the Radius? Im thinking no. The left foot is still being loaded, if you will. Preserving the Feet/Up full sequence to the Pivot Train. Course George and Hogan would have started by slammin the left foot down, it being slightly off the ground for longer shots.


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