Hitting Ball with Right Index Finger

Gentlemen...I have been experimenting with my swing (don't I always) and I've been hitting the ball with the index finger of my right hand (no golf here, just on the range). I'm trying to feel pressure on that "trigger finger" on the downswing and create some lag at the same time. My hands always seem to follow the club head instead of the other way around.

Is this okay, or will it produce its own set of problems?

Thank you for your time, knowledge, and expertise.

I'd say its good in a number of ways. Profoundly good.But dont start pushing directly with it on the aft of the shaft, that would be profoundly bad, throwaway by definition. When you feel the pressure against it start to point or trace, paint a line with it. No pressure , no paint, like say a spray can. Let the inertia push against the #3 pp and there in use it as "indirect" drive rather than "direct" drive for both Aiming purposes (Tracing) and Thrust regulation (Lag Pressure metering). In that way you have both distance and direction monitored.

For swingers this pressure is sensed at the first joint of the index finger during impact and at the knuckle where the index finger meets the hand during Startdown, Lag Loading. There is an accompanying Right Elbow position unique to this set of #3pp locations. For Hitters its normally all first joint, Drive Loading against the aft of the shaft.

See the free movie here entitled "Pressure point #3 where are you?". It will save you much time and frustration. Years maybe.

There is something special to the idea of pointing. Something in our human makeup or whatever. Its benefits are there even if there is a good deal of parallax. I recently came across an article on a marksman who could teach anyone to shoot coins out the air with a bb gun. He could teach rank beginners to do this in a matter of minutes, his students including U.S Presidents and heavy weight boxing champs and joe public. His name was Lucky McDaniel. His method will seem familiar to us here at LBG, its all about pointing, proprioception, routine and instinct as opposed to mental or physical effort. A short cut in the pathway between eye and hand without conscious intervention that would slow the message down and garble it up like that kids game of broken telephone.

Something we see the pro golfers on tv do more than we retched hacks who need it most.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...2995/index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_McDaniel


There's a book from the early 1800's which outlines a method of "dueling for the beginner" that recommends extending the index finger along the barrel to enable you to point at your target better. A method that survives to this day in marksmanship of all kinds.

Our brains and our hands are capable of doing fantastically complex things at such rapid rates that it should be obvious to us to just let them do there thing. But golf being so frustrating at first has a way of letting rational thought, most of it false logic, come into the mix. To our detriment.

Moe might have been thinking about clouds but was pointing at dirt. He got it away in a hurry too. Is this instinct golf? Quick kill golf? Greg McHatton actually has his right finger sort of hanging off the club does he not?

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I am seeing positive results so far and I will take your counsel to heart. I know this may sound like a gross exaggeration, but I've gained two clubs using this method. Prior to this I released way to early. I still think I am releasing early, but not as badly.

In order for me to feel that pressure on my index finger I have to keep moving my body. If I stop, or slow down that pressure goes away. When I try to "force" or "push" too much with the index finger my hands outrace my body, my hands turn over, and I hook the ball. At least that is what I think is happening. This is a self-teaching endeavor.

Be sure to have plenty of right shoulder downward drive so you don't run out of right arm. Okie's sage advice may be some of the best you ever receive: "Drive the right shoulder down until you hit dirt...then drive some more...you bastard!"
I'm taking it to the bank.

Originally Posted by JerryG Be sure to have plenty of right shoulder downward drive so you don't run out of right arm. Okie's sage advice may be some of the best you ever receive: "Drive the right shoulder down until you hit dirt...then drive some more...you bastard!"
I'm taking it to the bank.

OKIE and O.B. have both given us wonderful quotes on the right shoulder lately. My other favorite:

the right shoulder is the liason between the power package and the pivot...train it!

Great stuff!

Kevin

Proper right shoulder movement is critical to delivering the power package correctly in my opinion.

If the right shoulder works under to much you are going to dump #3 pp early as I painfully had to learn.

Also I had been given advice not to over-accelerate the club head, thats the path to PP#3. Worst advice to for me, I would leave the club head behind and then my pivot would wonder off finishing the swing.

Acceleration, with proper pivot and plane lines, is the key to PP#3 in my opinion.

"Shoulder tracing the plane line up and down!

I was carrying the range TITLEISTS 230 in the air!

And after I hit my PW that far, well, I hit my driver further!

Seriously, though, they were not all TITLEISTS LMFAO!!!!



Jerry, are you near Minneapolis? Kevin?

Pat

Originally Posted by JerryG Be sure to have plenty of right shoulder downward drive so you don't run out of right arm. Okie's sage advice may be some of the best you ever receive: "Drive the right shoulder down until you hit dirt...then drive some more...you bastard!"
I'm taking it to the bank.

Hi there,

I just ordered my yellowbook today, introduced myself yesterday in another thread.

I did not have much of a clue about the PP's prior to reading here, I was just looking for a way to hit more solidly.

Today I had my second mental breakthrough, first I had with the left shoulder stuff, today with the PP#3.

Probably my grip with the right hand is a bit more under the club that's why I feel pp3 is tiny below 1rst joint of the right index finger. I start to feel the load I put on the shaft there and once I feel the load, I can predict a good hit on the sweetspot. Unluckily that happend in my backyard hitting into a net, so I can't make any testimonials about the ball flight, but solidly I start to hit clean shots.

After a while experiencing this feeling I couldn't resist to try it on the lawn, and et voila, nice divots, rather thin, I think that comes from the extensive mat practise, but none of the divots was deeper then a quarter of an inch, from 8 iron to 5 iron. My first impression is "shake it baby"

I hit the backyard tomorrow again every now and then to inhale more of this feeling.

Thanks to all of you, this is really great help here.

Cheers

Frank

PS: does anybody now the book "Homer Kelley's Golfing Machine: The Curious Quest That Solved Golf"? i thought it would be good to something on a higher level as well.

It was so strange and so good at the same time. Another beastly hitter at the range commented on my compression and said "Hogan, right?" I gave him the official LBG red hall pass to the website

All my shots were very good, though my driver was so-so.


If you have anytime, sometime, could you explain why pros do not do that grip and how they get the pp # 3 so well trained? Do they all have an orange power-point they take off during a round or (and this is probably the case) do they have a sublime sense of feel and balance on plane with their clubs or a special PGA decoder that allows them super-human club manipulations?

Patrick

Originally Posted by O.B.Left I'd say its good in a number of ways. Profoundly good.But dont start pushing directly with it on the aft of the shaft, that would be profoundly bad, throwaway by definition. When you feel the pressure against it start to point or trace, paint a line with it. No pressure , no paint, like say a spray can. Let the inertia push against the #3 pp and there in use it as "indirect" drive rather than "direct" drive for both Aiming purposes (Tracing) and Thrust regulation (Lag Pressure metering). In that way you have both distance and direction monitored.

For swingers this pressure is sensed at the first joint of the index finger during impact and at the knuckle where the index finger meets the hand during Startdown, Lag Loading. There is an accompanying Right Elbow position unique to this set of #3pp locations. For Hitters its normally all first joint, Drive Loading against the aft of the shaft.

See the free movie here entitled "Pressure point #3 where are you?". It will save you much time and frustration. Years maybe.

There is something special to the idea of pointing. Something in our human makeup or whatever. Its benefits are there even if there is a good deal of parallax. I recently came across an article on a marksman who could teach anyone to shoot coins out the air with a bb gun. He could teach rank beginners to do this in a matter of minutes, his students including U.S Presidents and heavy weight boxing champs and joe public. His name was Lucky McDaniel. His method will seem familiar to us here at LBG, its all about pointing, proprioception, routine and instinct as opposed to mental or physical effort. A short cut in the pathway between eye and hand without conscious intervention that would slow the message down and garble it up like that kids game of broken telephone.

Something we see the pro golfers on tv do more than we retched hacks who need it most.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...2995/index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_McDaniel


There's a book from the early 1800's which outlines a method of "dueling for the beginner" that recommends extending the index finger along the barrel to enable you to point at your target better. A method that survives to this day in marksmanship of all kinds.

Our brains and our hands are capable of doing fantastically complex things at such rapid rates that it should be obvious to us to just let them do there thing. But golf being so frustrating at first has a way of letting rational thought, most of it false logic, come into the mix. To our detriment.

Moe might have been thinking about clouds but was pointing at dirt. He got it away in a hurry too. Is this instinct golf? Quick kill golf? Greg McHatton actually has his right finger sort of hanging off the club does he not?

Originally Posted by innercityteacher It was so strange and so good at the same time. Another beastly hitter at the range commented on my compression and said "Hogan, right?" I gave him the official LBG red hall pass to the website

All my shots were very good, though my driver was so-so.


If you have anytime, sometime, could you explain why pros do not do that grip and how they get the pp # 3 so well trained? Do they all have an orange power-point they take off during a round or (and this is probably the case) do they have a sublime sense of feel and balance on plane with their clubs or a special PGA decoder that allows them super-human club manipulations?

Patrick

So you had the knuckle on the top of the grip and the first joint on the aft? Is that what you mean?

To answer your question about why all pros dont use that grip............there is no one way! But for all good players there is Lag Pressure sensed in the hands at some point or other. Whether they acknowledge it or not. A lag pressure consistent with their chosen Lag Loading procedure. Drive or Drag. 10-19.

You dont see Hogans grip everywhere but you dont see his Drag Loading everywhere either. Hogan had the ideal grip to go along with his ideal Drag Loading. He was like a work of art, that guy.

I'd venture that a strong right hand grip wouldnt have allowed Hogan to Drag Load like he did , not for that long anyways. That he'd have started to push a little given that his elbow wouldnt have been so pitch and when the Left Hand rotated off the Inclined Plane he'd have released earlier. Something those other pros you mention probably do and quite effectively too. Nothing wrong with a Sweep Release.

In short the physics associated with the manner in which we apply force to the handle reveals itself in the alignments we display. Show me a Pitch elbow and Ill show you a knuckle riding on top (most likely) as it just goes with bending the shaft along the Top /Bottom axis during Drag Loading, Active Left Wrist, Left ARm Flying Wedge, Swinging etc. Show me a Punch elbow and Ill show you a grip aligned for pushing (most likely) bending the shaft along the For/ Aft grip axis, the Right Arm Flying Wedge. Homer recommended a 10-2-B grip in either case but in the field you see variety. Grip changes are hard to make for a seasoned golfer.


How do the pros train their #3? Id say that by and large without even knowing of the #3pp, they associated a feeling in their hands with good contact. A feeling that comes and goes but something they seek out. Something they discovered as kids probably. What is that feeling? Lag pressure as well as the other pressure points too. They all speak to us, tell us their different stories. The #4 tells us about how the pivot is doing, the #2 about the Left Hand wrist cock etc. Some guys, especially the ones with "trigger fingers", would have a strong sense of what we'd call the #3pp. The others just have it despite the fact they dont really think about it. Id imagine, I dunno.

With Hogan's grip you get the knuckle and the first joint ,one on Top one on the aft. Ready to take the load and sustain it, direct it as you bend the shaft sequencialy along its two axis, if you wish to. I can imagine not loading along the top/bottom axis at the knuckle but every good golfer senses lag at the first joint or there abouts. Thats the top of the Sweetspot Plane, the Longitudinal Center of Gravity. Without it the clubhead has passed the hands. Ill have to ask my cross handed buddy about what he feels and where. If he can articulate it. Whenever I ask him about things like that he starts to talk and then just says "aw.......I cant describe it, forget about it". He can pipe line it though.

This will take me a month of practice to begin to comprehend in my swing. And since I teach until June 21st, why not?

OB, my handles are very large as I was aspiring to Moe Norman nirvana before TGM reality set in. My larger index finger knuckle is aft (3 o'clock) and the smaller knuckle is at 5 o'clock almost directly underneath the shaft.

I believe in lag pressure. Check

Drive or Drag. That makes sense!

Because my man J. Savage, GSEB, showed me the beauty of balance and traceing the plane line, I was able to swing (my version) today, and also RFA takeaway, left-hand pull karate chop right arm drive today. Down the middle with a little fade. Not as long as the swing but easier on my frame. What a dependable way to play, though!

Thanks, OB, I will save this along with Kevin's docs and experiment and learn!

Patrick

Originally Posted by O.B.Left So you had the knuckle on the top of the grip and the first joint on the aft? Is that what you mean?

But for all good players there is Lag Pressure sensed in the hands at some point or other. Whether they acknowledge it or not. A lag pressure consistent with their chosen Lag Loading procedure. Drive or Drag. 10-19.


I'd venture that a strong right hand grip wouldnt have allowed Hogan to Drag Load like he did , not for that long anyways. That he'd have started to push a little given that his elbow wouldnt have been so pitch and when the Left Hand rotated off the Inclined Plane he'd have released earlier. Something those other pros you mention probably do and quite effectively too. Nothing wrong with a Sweep Release.

In short the physics associated with the manner in which we apply force to the handle reveals itself in the alignments we display. Show me a Pitch elbow and Ill show you a knuckle riding on top (most likely) as it just goes with bending the shaft along the Top /Bottom axis during Drag Loading, Active Left Wrist, Left ARm Flying Wedge, Swinging etc. Show me a Punch elbow and Ill show you a grip aligned for pushing (most likely) bending the shaft along the For/ Aft grip axis, the Right Arm Flying Wedge. Homer recommended a 10-2-B grip in either case but in the field you see variety. Grip changes are hard to make for a seasoned golfer.


How do the pros train their #3? Id say that by and large without even knowing of the #3pp, they associated a feeling in their hands with good contact. A feeling that comes and goes but something they seek out. Something they discovered as kids probably. What is that feeling? Lag pressure as well as the other pressure points too. They all speak to us, tell us their different stories. The #4 tells us about how the pivot is doing, the #2 about the Left Hand wrist cock etc. Some guys, especially the ones with "trigger fingers", would have a strong sense of what we'd call the #3pp. The others just have it despite the fact they dont really think about it. Id imagine, I dunno.

With Hogan's grip you get the knuckle and the first joint ,one on Top one on the aft. Ready to take the load and sustain it, direct it as you bend the shaft sequencialy along its two axis, if you wish to. I can imagine not loading along the top/bottom axis at the knuckle but every good golfer senses lag at the first joint or there abouts. Thats the top of the Sweetspot Plane, the Longitudinal Center of Gravity. Without it the clubhead has passed the hands. Ill have to ask my cross handed buddy about what he feels and where. If he can articulate it. Whenever I ask him about things like that he starts to talk and then just says "aw.......I cant describe it, forget about it". He can pipe line it though.

Originally Posted by innercityteacher
OB, my handles are very large as I was aspiring to Moe Norman nirvana before TGM reality set in. My larger index finger knuckle is aft (3 o'clock) and the smaller knuckle is at 5 o'clock almost directly underneath the shaft.

Patrick

Hmm, maybe we are getting our wires crossed. Im talking about the knuckle at the base of the index finger, the one you'd punch with. That is on top of the shaft in Hogans grip. This is the number three pressure point in its swingers, rotated position, the one you load when drag loading. The other #3 pp location is associated with radial acceleration, through impact or for drive loading is the first joint , the crease just below the knuckle of the index finger, which Hogan aligned on the aft of the shaft. One index finger , two lag pressure points , one on top , one on the aft. Both at the ready to sustain the lag and direct it.

Originally Posted by innercityteacher Thanks, OB, I will save this along with Kevin's docs and experiment and learn!

Patrick

Patrick,

You are now in great hands with your AI. If you find things in those documents you like, clear it with your teacher before you try to incorporate into your swing. You guys are developing a great plan, don't allow it to be derailed by other ideas that may not fit your puzzle!

Kevin