left shoulder?

When and how does the left shoulder slow down during the forward swing?

Only when the Component preceding it slows down.

On the forward swing if I try and hold the left shoulder at impact position I get a better hit. Seems like if I don't try and hold the shoulder it spins left to early. Does this tell me something about my swing ? Could I be lacking a full shoulder turn?

You may not be getting enough hip slide or doing it at the right time. Remember the bump that is needed, hula hula. Once the hip slide occurs, you the left shoulder goes up as the right shoulder goes down and forward on plane. If your right shoulder drives on plane, your left shoulder will move correctly.

Ben Doyle had me stand behind him and put two hands on his scapula. The shoulder motion is constant. What ever the feeling is in an illusion. Now the hips are another matter.

Originally Posted by david sandridge Ben Doyle had me stand behind him and put two hands on his scapula. The shoulder motion is constant. What ever the feeling is in an illusion. Now the hips are another matter.

I been experimenting with using the hips more for balance and stability, less as a primary activator of the swing. The less conscious I am of the weight shift and just"allow it to happen" the better quailty of my ball striking.

The shoulder seem to be a different matter though, I been more conscious of my scapula as a power source to assist ball and socket motion of the humerus. Why would Ben want the scapula to remain still? I think scapular retraction and protraction is important part of the shoulder motion.

Originally Posted by jerry1967 When and how does the left shoulder slow down during the forward swing?

When the Right Shoulder slows down , the Left will do likewise. They are connected after all, but it is only the Right Shoulder that is Aligned in some manner.....to the Plane Line.

If one uses an On Plane (Right) Shoulder Throw the Left Shoulder will respond accordingly.

If the right shoulder moves down plane then the left shoulder must move up so the shoulders do not always go back and through? They must at some time just move down and up?

Originally Posted by jerry1967 If the right shoulder moves down plane then the left shoulder must move up so the shoulders do not always go back and through? They must at some time just move down and up?

Good point Jerry.

If the Head is Stationary, then the Shoulders move around it. It may not be so much a question of how fast they move, but rather how Far they move.

To sustain the Lag, all of the Pivot components must keep moving at least through the Impact Interval. No quitting.

Originally Posted by jerry1967 If the right shoulder moves down plane then the left shoulder must move up so the shoulders do not always go back and through? They must at some time just move down and up?

Yes , if I understand you correctly.

Though one might think their Shoulders turn on the same plane going back and through .........given any Hip Slide , which will Tilt the Axis of the Shoulders ......... and thereby lower the Right Shoulder (all the while with a steady head)..........the plane of the shoulder turn on the Downswing will become Steeper.

The guys who subscribe to Rotated back and through, given any Hip Slide dont actually achieve a non shifting shoulder turn plane.

Originally Posted by jerry1967 When and how does the left shoulder slow down during the forward swing?

I think it slows down at the end of the follow through. Thats what keeps the shaft from breaking your right scapula as it comes down and across your back. 2-H. the left shoulder is helpless. I have the most trouble with my shoulders when I let my left shoulder do anything on its own

The Bear

Vapid post. This is a little off topic, but the Left Shoulder needs a push from the Right Shoulder.

I've seen many swings where the Left Shoulder hardly moves during the Downstroke. Players that raise their Left Shoulders during the Backstroke may have the right shoulder travel Down-plane during the Downstroke but without much consequence.

Without Left Shoulder Alignment, the Right Shoulder will easily go around/under the Left Shoulder. A disruptively Flat shoulder Turn will result when the Left Shoulder travels across and/or up during the Backstroke. It should go down, well under your chin.

10-13-B FLAT This is a relatively flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn which places the Shoulder “On Plane” for any Plane Angle with a flatter angle than the Rotated Shoulder Angle.

So, you don't attempt to make a "Flat" Backstroke Shoulder Turn; it's effect. Anyone is physically capable, without stress, to perform a perfect Flat or Rotated Shoulder Turn. If you can't, it's know-how.




Back to the Topic:

Consider this: If the Shoulders are the Last part of the Pivot, then they are the last part of the pivot to slow down.

Originally Posted by Daryl Vapid post. This is a little off topic, but the Left Shoulder needs a push from the Right Shoulder.

I've seen many swings where the Left Shoulder hardly moves during the Downstroke. Players that raise their Left Shoulders during the Backstroke may have the right shoulder travel Down-plane during the Downstroke but without much consequence.

Without Left Shoulder Alignment, the Right Shoulder will easily go around/under the Left Shoulder. A disruptively Flat shoulder Turn will result when the Left Shoulder travels across and/or up during the Backstroke. It should go down, well under your chin.



So, you don't attempt to make a "Flat" Backstroke Shoulder Turn; it's effect. Anyone is physically capable, without stress, to perform a perfect Flat or Rotated Shoulder Turn. If you can't, it's know-how.




Back to the Topic:

Consider this: If the Shoulders are the Last part of the Pivot, then they are the last part of the pivot to slow down.

I would say though if you dont have good flexibility then the rotated shoulder turn can feel a little uncomfortable.....but dont most people fall between flat and rotated?

Originally Posted by Daryl Vapid post. This is a little off topic, but the Left Shoulder needs a push from the Right Shoulder.

I've seen many swings where the Left Shoulder hardly moves during the Downstroke. Players that raise their Left Shoulders during the Backstroke may have the right shoulder travel Down-plane during the Downstroke but without much consequence.

Without Left Shoulder Alignment, the Right Shoulder will easily go around/under the Left Shoulder. A disruptively Flat shoulder Turn will result when the Left Shoulder travels across and/or up during the Backstroke. It should go down, well under your chin.



So, you don't attempt to make a "Flat" Backstroke Shoulder Turn; it's effect. Anyone is physically capable, without stress, to perform a perfect Flat or Rotated Shoulder Turn. If you can't, it's know-how.




Back to the Topic:

Consider this: If the Shoulders are the Last part of the Pivot, then they are the last part of the pivot to slow down.

So, I have made lots of mistakes trying to stay on plane, and I will (most likely) in the future. One of my persistent mistakes was wanting to drive the heck out of the right shoulder down plane. I was going OTT (over the top) bigtime.

Daryl and everyone else in the LBG universe patiently informed my gimpy machine that I had to Pivot first to get the hips out of the way so the back shoulder comes down on plane, not around it.

I have done a lot of this (using the "Holies and Polies" free video) and the OTT stuff has stopped. After awhile, about 20 balls on the range, lifting the left shoulder while the RFT is finishing up plane feels like Pivoting slowly on my front gimpy leg. Feeling the # 4 pp has gotten to be a great comfort. It is the bio-mechanical way of giving my back shoulder a massive sedative. It means my shot is going pretty straight or pretty much where I want it to. I believe the left shoulder always moves up, slowly.

Since bio-mechanical possibilities are really what TGM is all about, could we get the same good on plane effect by driving the right knee forward or pushing off on the inside back foot? If all things are equal (and they really are not very often), would this not explain the various great golfers simply saying the same bio-mechanically effective things with "different accents?"
(I'm referring to truly effective golfers with multiple years of winning and different "feels" as to their effectiveness.)

Patrick (soon to be driving in Minneeeesooooota)

Originally Posted by jerry1967 When and how does the left shoulder slow down during the forward swing?

The Period of Shoulder Acceleration , Startdown, ends with the period of ......Hand Acceleration. 4, 1, 2, 3. Its a sequential firing, like a rocket booster or whatever.

There is some disagreement around this point however amongst the different tribes of Homer followers. Homer and Lynn have it right to my mind. The inside swings the outside.

The shoulders slow down after they accelerate .....

Originally Posted by O.B.Left The Period of Shoulder Acceleration , Startdown, ends with the period of ......Hand Acceleration. 4, 1, 2, 3. Its a sequential firing, like a rocket booster or whatever.

There is some disagreement around this point however amongst the different tribes of Homer followers. Homer and Lynn have it right to my mind. The inside swings the outside.

The shoulders slow down after they accelerate .....

OK, Picky, but Fine....if you want to be technical about it. Then, they slow down because the Hands Accelerate. CHOAM. The Right Arm begins to Extend. The Left Arm is Blasted off the Chest.