rolling starts where

When does the rolling start to take place ?

As soon as your left hand leaves its turned to the inclined plane condition in the Downstroke.

Swingers though they might be uncocking the left wrist on plane, can drag the left hand while its still turned to plane deep ........Sequenced Release, #2 then #3. Hitters by virtue of their pushing on the aft of the shaft tend push the left hand off the Inclined Plane earlier and thereby release #2 and #3 together.

Either way , to Delay Release keep your left hand turned to the inclined Plane longer via Drag or Float Loading. Late release, its not really all about left hand wrist cock as you might first think. Research CF Throwout. Once the clubhead passes the hands ......its going to release.

Roll or Swivel?

The Pivot closes (Rolls) the Clubface in relation to the Plane Line. Zone 1

Swivel is the longitudinal rolling of the shaft around the Sweetspot. Zone 3


Different purposes, different issues, different solutions. Keeping them separate is especially important for Swingers to Hinge through Impact and not Swivel through Impact.

Test your "Roll" by using 10-19-C (below). If you didn't throw yourself off-plane during the Backstroke and/or your Pivot is functioning according to Plan, then the Ball should fly straight. Otherwise, you should correct your "Roll" before trying to correct your "Swivel". (Correct Zone 1 issues before Zone 3)

10-18-C SINGLE Here, the Left Wrist is Cocked but not Turned. The Action has three alternative procedures:

1. Let the Pivot bring Horizontal Hinging to a normal On Plane “Top” position.
2. Let the Pivot bring Angled Hinging to a normal On Plane “Top” position.
3. Hold the Wrist – “Vertical” throughout for a True Single Action “Top” position.

Because there is actually NO HAND MOTION during the Stroke, the Clubhead Fix alignment remains undisturbed.

Swivel:

10-18-A STANDARD With this procedure with Wrist is Turned and Cocked (FCT) during the Backstroke which requires that it be Rolled and Uncocked during the Release. Only where this procedure is used, do the Hands “Swivel” into Hinge Action Position. Study 4-D-0.

First, it's important for the #3 Pressure Point to be located on top of the Longitudinal Center of Gravity of the Golf Club. This way, Clubhead Lag senses and directs the Sweetspot Plane and not the Clubshaft Plane. This is important because if you sense the Clubshaft, then you will attempt to rotate the Clubhead around the shaft and not the shaft around the Sweetspot (Shank - and all sorts of mishits).

Second, it's important to have a Flat Left Wrist while Uncocking the Left Wrist. You can't roll Swivel with a Bent Left Wrist (Shank - and all sorts of mishits).

I use a trick to Swivel. While my Left Wrist is Uncocking, I bump the Left Wrist. I arch it ever so slightly. The Arching of the Left Wrist "Swivels" the Clubface. (AKA Hogan). The Bump stops the Swivel from "over-Swiveling" and transitions nicely into the Hinge. Practice this while using only your Left Hand on the Club. You can see how the bump changes the Attitude of the Clubface and how clubface control through impact becomes strictly a Hinge Action. If you're having difficulty, then bend your Left Wrist slightly during the Backstroke and flatten it during the downstroke. Momentum will slightly arch the left wrist.

Rolling the wrists IS the proper way.

"Keeping them separate is especially important for Swingers to Hinge through Impact and not Swivel through Impact".


Thank you for the answer Daryl but I am having trouble with the statement above. I am having trouble telling the difference between hinge and swivel.
I thought swivel takes place after the follow through? How can I swivel through impact if it doesn't start until after the follow through? As you can see I am a little confused. The problem I have is with HINGE and where it takes place.

"As soon as your left hand leaves its flat to the inclined plane condition in the Downstroke".


Ok where in relation to the body does this action take place?
When the hands are hip level, thigh level, hands are even with the ball?

Originally Posted by jerry1967 "Keeping them separate is especially important for Swingers to Hinge through Impact and not Swivel through Impact".


Thank you for the answer Daryl but I am having trouble with the statement above. I am having trouble telling the difference between hinge and swivel.
I thought swivel takes place after the follow through? How can I swivel through impact if it doesn't start until after the follow through? As you can see I am a little confused. The problem I have is with HINGE and where it takes place.

Jerry,

You are referring to the "Finish Swivel". Both Hitters and Swingers "Finish Swivel". There is also a Start-up Swivel and Pre-Impact Swivel for Swingers only.

The Swivel is a completely different Concept than Hinging.

SWIVEL:

After start-up, when the club shaft is parallel to the ground and parallel to the base line of the Inclined Plane, take a look at your club face. If the Clubface is vertical to the ground, then you have not swiveled. If it's almost laying On-Plane, then you have Swiveled. It's a "Hand Motion".

The three Basic Wrist Motions can be classified as:
4-A. Horizontal Bend and Arch (Clubshaft) Grip Motion
4-B. Perpendicular Cock and Uncock (Clubhead) Wrist Motion
4-C. Rotational Turn and Roll (Clubface) Hand Motion

Hinging is the motion alignment of the Clubface through Impact. Horizontal, Angled or Vertical.

2-G HINGE MOTION Direction Control (2-D) means Clubface alignment control. The Clubface can make three motions through Impact – Hood, Close, and Lay-Back. “Hooding the Clubface” normally, can only reduce the Clubface Angle so only the Putter can actually be Hooded to any advantage (2-B, 2-C-4). Of the two remaining, we can use one or the other or both. That is “Closing” without “Lay-back.” (10-10-D) “Lay-back” without “Closing” (10-10-E) and simultaneous “Closing” and “Lay-back” (10-10-C).

Your Clubface should be Vertical to the ground when entering the HINGE interval of Impact. So,,,you need to Swivel before Impact, then Hinge through Impact. Then, after follow-through, you will swivel again for the finish.

Videos of Yoda demonstrating the "Finish Swivel" has you focus on the Finish Swivel. If you Focus on the Finish Swivel (and preparing to finish swivel) then most everything else will fall into place.

I substitute "Grip Motion" for "Hand motion" swivel because it's easier for me.

So, Swiveling is the Clubface Alignment to the Inclined Plane and is a Hand Motion. The Clubface is Rotated to lie on the Plane going Back, square (Perpendicular, vertical) for Impact, and once again rotated to lie on Plane after the Follow-through ... "Finish swivel". Hinging is the Motion Alignment through the Impact Interval.

Originally Posted by O.B.Left As soon as your left hand leaves its flat to the inclined plane condition in the Downstroke.

Swingers though they might be uncocking the left wrist on plane, can drag the left hand while its still turned to plane deep ........Sequenced Release, #2 then #3. Hitters by virtue of their pushing on the aft of the shaft tend push the left hand off the Inclined Plane earlier and thereby release #2 and #3 together.

Either way , to Delay Release keep your left hand turned to the inclined Plane longer via Drag or Float Loading. Late release, its not really all about left hand wrist cock as you might first think. Research CF Throwout. Once the clubhead passes the hands ......its going to release.

I so agree!
This (4-D-0 to start) is in need of better/more research and explanation by Homer Kelley - but alas, we know that can never happen, we say with a Sigh- A NEW defining term is needed to describe what happen with the wrists and hands and Rhythm and CF during a "sequenced" release. Because it is neither swivel nor roll. IT IS A DANCE. A CHOREOGRAPHED DANCE . And the key is in the choreography (12-3-0-21,22,23)

The Bear

Originally Posted by jerry1967 When does the rolling start to take place ?

For a swinger's sequenced release - When the left wrist is uncocked and the right arm starts to straighten

Originally Posted by jerry1967 "As soon as your left hand leaves its flat to the inclined plane condition in the Downstroke".


Ok where in relation to the body does this action take place?
When the hands are hip level, thigh level, hands are even with the ball?

The other way of posing this question is "where does Release take place?".

Full Sweep Release would have it happen very early for a high floater around the green or a shot over a tree or something. A knock down would see it happen later as you add shaft lean. Delayed Release for added power, early Release for a higher trajectory , etc etc . Release is one of the tools of the shot maker. A machine adjustment.

So,,,you need to Swivel before Impact, then Hinge through Impact. Then, after follow-through, you will swivel again for the finish.


Thanks Daryl.

So I can try and keep the sequence right for my mind it should be (1)unco*k--(2)pre impact swivel--(3)hinge action through impact. Is this right?

All this should be automatic with a swinger, right?

The swivel starts about at my right thigh or should it be later or sooner ?