Originally Posted by DOCW3 Trying to develop a question! In the interim, from 7-3, the right forearm position at the Top is different for Hitters and Swingers. What are the primary contributors? Also, is it correct that Top is hands at shoulder level?
Originally Posted by O.B.Left 7-3 makes reference to a different Right Elbow position for the Arc and Angle of Approach Procedures. You can Hit and use the Arc or the Angle but Swinging you can only use the Arc. The Arc and the Angle do not share the same Plane Line so to be precise its not just the Right Elbow position that differs! 2-J-3 is a big mess of worms.....hard to understand for a few thousand readings.Those are awesome pics . . .. that dude's hands just look like they belong on a golf club.
Yes, Top is Right Shoulder High.
To answer your question very basically , your Right Forearm and therefore Elbow support the loading action ......is in line with the direction of the loading action. Like a column supports the weight of a floor above it say. It back stops it, a very handy thing that'll inhibit off plane loading like say Nancy Lopez or Raymond Floyd.
Think of the Right Forearm as a support post at Top or End but then turning into an on plane extension of the clubshaft with all its added mass and leverage through impact!!
The #3 pp has two locations. One at the knuckle , on the top of the shaft , typically a swingers location for Loading as per 10-19-C Drag Loading. Here for the Right Forearm to act in a supporting role it must be in line with the loading of the Knuckle along the Top of the Shaft ie directly under the Top of the shaft at End. Vice versa for the Hitter who loads the First Joint in the Right Index Finger, the AFt of the Shaft and 10-19-A Drives Loads. Here the Right Forearm will be directly opposite or inline with the Loading of the Aft of the Shaft at Top.
So you can see that if you are in the process of loading one or the other Pressure Point you'd best have your elbow positioned accordingly during the Backstroke. The elbow position is not merely a result of stopping at Top or End, its a geometric alignment in support of the loading action, what ever it may be.
Given the same Plane Line for both procedures you have two different Right Elbow Positions. One inline with the Top of the Shaft , one inline with the Aft. Both having corresponding #3pp locations and ideally a "c" shaped index finger ala Hogan's right hand grip. You need your knuckle on the top , your first joint on the aft. Especially if you Drag then Drive.
In the Royal and Ancient Golf Clubs museum at St Andrews they have bronze casts of the grips of Open winners past .............every one of them had this alignment to their right index finger.
Hogan even aligned his knuckle and first joint in a similar fashion, when tee'n up a ball! Coincidence?
Its weird how when you learn about the alignments you start seeing them everywhere. Or maybe Im crazy.
Originally Posted by O.B.Left The Arc and the Angle do not share the same Plane Line so to be precise its not just the Right Elbow position that differs! 2-J-3 is a big mess of worms.....hard to understand for a few thousand readings.This makes no sense to me, are you saying you have two different baselines of the plane for hitting and swinging? In hitting you should be tracing a baseline that would be different than swinging for a square-square setup to hit a straight shot.
Originally Posted by O.B.Left 7-3 makes reference to a different Right Elbow position for the Arc and Angle of Approach Procedures. You can Hit and use the Arc or the Angle but Swinging you can only use the Arc. The Arc and the Angle do not share the same Plane Line so to be precise its not just the Right Elbow position that differs! 2-J-3 is a big mess of worms.....hard to understand for a few thousand readings.
Yes, Top is Right Shoulder High.
To answer your question very basically , your Right Forearm and therefore Elbow support the loading action ......is in line with the direction of the loading action. Like a column supports the weight of a floor above it say. It back stops it, a very handy thing that'll inhibit off plane loading like say Nancy Lopez or Raymond Floyd.
Think of the Right Forearm as a support post at Top or End but then turning into an on plane extension of the clubshaft with all its added mass and leverage through impact!!
The #3 pp has two locations. One at the knuckle , on the top of the shaft , typically a swingers location for Loading as per 10-19-C Drag Loading. Here for the Right Forearm to act in a supporting role it must be in line with the loading of the Knuckle along the Top of the Shaft ie directly under the Top of the shaft at End. Vice versa for the Hitter who loads the First Joint in the Right Index Finger, the AFt of the Shaft and 10-19-A Drives Loads. Here the Right Forearm will be directly opposite or inline with the Loading of the Aft of the Shaft at Top.
So you can see that if you are in the process of loading one or the other Pressure Point you'd best have your elbow positioned accordingly during the Backstroke. The elbow position is not merely a result of stopping at Top or End, its a geometric alignment in support of the loading action, what ever it may be.
Given the same Plane Line for both procedures you have two different Right Elbow Positions. One inline with the Top of the Shaft , one inline with the Aft. Both having corresponding #3pp locations and ideally a "c" shaped index finger ala Hogan's right hand grip. You need your knuckle on the top , your first joint on the aft. Especially if you Drag then Drive.
In the Royal and Ancient Golf Clubs museum at St Andrews they have bronze casts of the grips of Open winners past .............every one of them had this alignment to their right index finger.
Hogan even aligned his knuckle and first joint in a similar fashion, when tee'n up a ball! Coincidence?
Its weird how when you learn about the alignments you start seeing them everywhere. Or maybe Im crazy.
Originally Posted by DOCW3 In the Free Gallery--LBG Videos---PP3 Where Are You-- Yoda teaches that #3 pressure point for the Hitter is behind the shaft at the Top but the Swinger in continuing to End has it on top of the shaft. He also discusses elbow position.
What happens to accomplish this change?
Ref: 7-3 STROKES--BASIC , second paragraph
Originally Posted by DOCW3 In the teaching, the right elbow and forearm are "re-positioned" when moving from Top to End as the Wrist is Turned. 7-3 explains the different alignments. Is the change also required/necessary to maintain the alignment of the Power Package basic structure and the integrity of The Flying Wedges?The basic structure of Power Package are the Left Arm and Right Forearm Flying Wedges oriented at 90 degrees to each other. Nothing should alter this alignment. Moving from Top to End should not alter this Alignment.
Ref: 6-B-3-0-1
Originally Posted by Daryl The basic structure of Power Package are the Left Arm and Right Forearm Flying Wedges oriented at 90 degrees to each other. Nothing should alter this alignment. Moving from Top to End should not alter this Alignment.Once I show them your avatar, you are toast fella!
Construct your Wedges while sitting down at a Table with your Left Wrist Vertical to the Ground. Lower your Right Elbow to the Table. Rotate the Wedges to the Right while keeping the Right Elbow on the Tabletop. You have now moved from "Top" to "End" as far as the Wedges are concerned.
This is where we part paths DOW3. It's either a misunderstanding on my part or a real difference in interpretation or both.
I claim that Swingers don't have a "Top" and Hitters don't have an "End".
For Hitters, going from "Top" to "End" does not relocate the Right Elbow, but only the Hands, which re-aligns the Right Forearm, which Swivels the Wrists (re-alignment) and converts a Single Wrist Action Backstroke to a Standard Action Backstroke.
Wherever a Swinger using Standard Wrist Action Halts his Backstroke, he is at "End Alignment". Wherever a Hitter using Single Wrist Action Halts his Backstroke, he is at "Top Alignment". If the Hitter's Hands continue moving while the Elbow cannot**, he will (may) unintentionally load the Secondary Lever. The difference in terminology is needed to explain/understand this phenomena.
Section #6 is "Top". This should not be confused with the "Top" vs. "End" terminology. One is a Section of the Golf Stroke while the other two are Force Alignment Orientations. "Top" is the term used to identify the #3 Pressure Point Loaded against the Primary Lever and "End" is the Term used to identify the #3 Pressure Point Loaded against the Secondary Lever.
**If the Elbow continues it will move off plane (then none of this matters). Or, the Elbow may not move farther than its physical limitation during the backstroke but the Hands have a greater range of motion, mean they can continue when the Elbow cannot. The Hands will move from Top to End.
Hey, I can be completely wrong. But I don't think so. But I'm more than willing to update my knowledge if you are willing to show me a different way of interpreting "Top"/"End". And, so that I don't spend the rest of my life going down the wrong path (and end up like a Philadelphia school teacher) I would be thankful of the correction sooner rather than later.
Originally Posted by Daryl
Construct your Wedges while sitting down at a Table with your Left Wrist Vertical to the Ground. Lower your Right Elbow to the Table. Rotate the Wedges to the Right while keeping the Right Elbow on the Tabletop. You have now moved from "Top" to "End" as far as the Wedges are concerned.