Who "said" this?

I heard. "Someone" said the plane is "D" shaped. ( Not the "D" plane being discussed elsewhere) BUT ( The plane is 3 dimensional). Who said this? Was it Ben Doyle? Where was it said, written or otherwise available and amplified?

The Bear

The Plane is 3 dimensional? Ya who said that one? Thats up there with the curved plane.

Here is what they are missing , to my mind. THE plane, is a plane , 2D , its angle of inclination can change (plane shift) but the base line can stay , ideally does stay in place.

Originally Posted by HungryBear I heard. "Someone" said the plane is "D" shaped. ( Not the "D" plane being discussed elsewhere) BUT ( The plane is 3 dimensional). Who said this? Was it Ben Doyle? Where was it said, written or otherwise available and amplified?

The Bear

Ben Doyle mentioned that the Plane can be "Curved" in his TGM 24 Components Video.

How am I doing here?

In regard to the above illustration of 1-L-18. Assuming plane shifts and looking down the line: If you were to plot the travel of the clubhead (or the hands) in three dimensional space that plot would be curved somewhat (depending upon the nature of the shifts) But the Plane is a flat Plane , which shifts angles. ( And maintains a straight line base line).

Its this straight line base line which is so ideal for tracing. The curve of the clubheads travel in three dimensional space is its geometric equivalent but an attempt to cover it would be far more difficult as your "curve" changes for any variation in length of club, ball position, plane shifts etc etc. The plane line just keeps on pointing straight line.

The circle lies flat (2D) on an inclined plane, which can shift its angle of inclination.

Words do a horrible job of describing geometry .......

Ya, I reviewed that part of his video. Hmm? Where did I get that Idea? He only said that the Plane Angles could float - from one to another.

Interesting though he said that Transfer Power is the Pivot transferring power (?) to the right forearm. I'm going to look that up for sure.

Originally Posted by O.B.Left

How am I doing here?

In regard to the above illustration of 1-L-18. Assuming plane shifts and looking down the line: If you were to plot the travel of the clubhead (or the hands) in three dimensional space that plot would be curved (somewhat depending upon the nature of the shifts) But the Plane is a flat Plane , which shifts angles. ( And maintains a straight line base line).

Its this straight line base line which is so ideal for tracing. The curve of the clubheads travel in three dimensional space is its geometric equivalent but an attempt to cover it would be far more difficult as your "curve" changes for any variation in length of club, ball position, plane shifts etc etc. The plane line just keeps on pointing straight line.

The circle lies flat (2D) on an inclined plane, which can shift its angle of inclination.

Words do a horrible job of describing geometry .......

I'm thinking back to three dimensional calculus -- there's a z factor to any formula you'd write to describe the surface area traced by the club shaft as the plane shifts.

Having said that, I'm betting the "feeling" for most of us would be a flat as a flitter no shift plane.

Thanks guys. You are all "spot on".

I was wondering, has "anyone" written or talked about the plane as viewed from the front (Target side "backwards" down the line) ? The front edge of the plane At follow-through? Both arms straight, shaft still on plane. Is this a TSP?

The Bear

Its a TSP if you shift to that plane in Follow Through or just Stay on it throughout the swing.

Zero Shift would have you TSP throughout , zero shift is very uncommon however. Singe shift would have you staying on the TSP after Startdown, double shift would have you stay on the lower plane (Elbow Plane or whaterver you choose). You could add another shift and shift from the Elbow back up to the TSP Triple Shift ..........any and all combinations are available to the golfer, but shifting can be hazardous of course.

The lower planes through the ball have a pronounced feel for going "left" or IN , which they in fact do. The steeper planes have more a feel for the UP , which is geometrically true as well.

Follow Through......Both ARms straight, Impact Hands, Flying Wedges , club still on plane would be your ideal, yes. Plane Angle dependent upon personal preference.

This assumes we are talking about the common situation where the Shaft lays flat on the Inclined Plane as opposed to the Clubhead only describing a Plane of Motion. Homer did allude to this bit of business........which would require a change to 1-L-5. Homer was that kinda guy. Single Horizontal is non (shaft) planar for instance , the shaft describes a cone, the clubhead rides a flat horizontal plane though. You can forget this caveat if you want......too much coffee today. Im sorry Bear ........where were we.

Originally Posted by O.B.Left Its a TSP if you shift to that plane in Follow Through or just Stay on it throughout the swing.

Zero Shift would have you TSP throughout , zero shift is very uncommon however. Singe shift would have you staying on the TSP after Startdown, double shift would have you stay on the lower plane (Elbow Plane or whaterver you choose). You could add another shift and shift from the Elbow back up to the TSP Triple Shift ..........any and all combinations are available to the golfer, but shifting can be hazardous of course.

The lower planes through the ball have a pronounced feel for going "left" or IN , which they in fact do. The steeper planes have more a feel for the UP , which is geometrically true as well.

O.B.
Thanks.
Like a few second opinions here. Both arms straight, shaft on plane. continue to trace. Looks like the options are TSP or off plane manipulation. That is significant because the Elbow plane golfer would have shifted to TSP at follow-through. The implications are enormous. Looking for sources that have addressed this issue or where HK put it as I have not found it in TGM.

The Bear