Stricker Down the Line

This is the same shot, but on one video I marked the travel of the Sweet Spot. On the other, I used a Plane Angle. I thought the geometry and camera location were good enough for conversation.

For someone that doesn't swing left, he has made some coin. His stroke is one of my personal favorites because of it's simplicity.

What do you think?

I think I want to see this

The videos have been attached to Ted's post.

No superhuman lag or hip flexibility, but a beautiful motion.

Originally Posted by chipingguru No superhuman lag or hip flexibility, but a beautiful motion.

Whatever his afflictions, I'll take some...Costco size, if you please.

I'll be first to be thrown head first into the briar patch.

To make him even more sick, his putting stroke is magnificent.

Was he hitting a draw or is it the camera angle?

Anyway it seems like his clubhead is on a pretty flat plane after transition. (Not flat as in horizontal; Flat as opposed to curved). Something that is probably very good for consistency.

I have a feeling that Stricker would appear to be swinging left if the camera was located in the plane of his clubhead path. There are traces of it even in the current perspective and he seem to hold his wedges pretty well past impact.

I think it is equally interesting to look at the hand path. And perhaps even more interesting - to look at the relationship between the handpath and the clubhead path.

I just watched a sequence of Garcia. That would also be an interesting case. From what I can see his clushaft plane angle changes several times during the down stroke. Garcia's hands are clearly over and then under the plane of the clubhead. Since he is arguebly one of the better ball strikers on tour I have a feeling that his swing can teach us something about the physics and mechanics involved.

Glad to hear that, Yoda

I speculated about something similar in a more general form. Then reported that I saw traces of it in Hogan's stroke.

But where Hogan has perhaps a little of this I believe Garcia has it in spades. At one instance his clubshaft is almost horizontal and then it steepens a lot towards impact. At least that's how it seemed on a video I checked. Seeing how pivot driven Garcia is (and now that I've just learned that he is a poster child for swinging) it seems unthinkable that his changes in clubshaft plane angle towards impact is caused by steering.

There is also something about Garcia's stroke that gives me the feeling that he is "all in" power wise. There seems to be no holding back there and everything he does seem to be geared towards generating speed and lag pressure. He seems to make a bigger effort in each full stroke than many of his competitors, and I often get the feeling that he could gain some precision and consistency if he tamed his power somehow. But he doesn't need to ease down to be precise does he? So it can't be raw power. It is power with precise alignments. Perhaps Garcia's stroke can teach us something that is more or less present in a lot of good strokes?

Here you can watch Garcia "in the cube":

Originally Posted by BerntR Was he hitting a draw or is it the camera angle?

Anyway it seems like his clubhead is on a pretty flat plane after transition. (Not flat as in horizontal; Flat as opposed to curved). Something that is probably very good for consistency.

I have a feeling that Stricker would appear to be swinging left if the camera was located in the plane of his clubhead path. There are traces of it even in the current perspective and he seem to hold his wedges pretty well past impact.

I think it is equally interesting to look at the hand path. And perhaps even more interesting - to look at the relationship between the handpath and the clubhead path.

I just watched a sequence of Garcia. That would also be an interesting case. From what I can see his clushaft plane angle changes several times during the down stroke. Garcia's hands are clearly over and then under the plane of the clubhead. Since he is arguebly one of the better ball strikers on tour I have a feeling that his swing can teach us something about the physics and mechanics involved.

I've done the 10-5-E Plane and it's corresponding camera location. The results are surprising. You can't appreciate the geometry until you film one swing with multiple cameras (one under, one on, and one over Plane).

The camera angle of Sergio on the same day and tee is not as good. The camera is under Plane.

Originally Posted by YodasLuke This is the same shot, but on one video I marked the travel of the Sweet Spot. On the other, I used a Plane Angle. I thought the geometry and camera location were good enough for conversation.

For someone that doesn't swing left, he has made some coin. His stroke is one of my personal favorites because of it's simplicity.

What do you think?

Is that a TSP takeaway, and a Single Shift (TSP to Elbow Plane) Down stroke?

Thanks, Ted!



ICT

Originally Posted by YodasLuke This is the same shot, but on one video I marked the travel of the Sweet Spot. On the other, I used a Plane Angle. I thought the geometry and camera location were good enough for conversation.

For someone that doesn't swing left, he has made some coin. His stroke is one of my personal favorites because of it's simplicity.

What do you think?

So in one you've got a Plane Line drawn for Club Shaft Plane of motion considerations with the camera seemingly set up pretty well all things considered. Situation normal we see this all the time right. You'd normally tend to think that he looped it under plane. But those guys can hit it with their feet and bodies pointed any which way, right.

So where's he pointing his plane line really? Is that what you mean, Luke? Dont judge a book by looking at its foot line or stance? Those inclined plane lines are subject to parallax and further more we dont really know what he is trying to do and we shouldnt make any assumptions given his setup, foot line in particular.

Second one is Sweetspot plane of motion only which shows a nice little 2D ish circle seen in perspective ...which means that circle has a plane and a plane line which appears to point right to some degree. If it points far enough right of where the ball started you've got Divergence, tilted backspin and a draw.

Hmmm. That sweetspot orbit is more telling isnt it! The path of the sweetspot vs face angle is what its really all about I guess right? Well Ill be. In the photo below his shaft even appears to be planed to the sweetspot orbit far better than the assumed plane line . I gotta do some more thinking on this.

Or maybe Im all wrong again and Stricker just totally pooched that shot. Where'd it end up anyways, Luke.

Originally Posted by O.B.Left So in one you've got a Plane Line drawn for Club Shaft Plane of motion considerations with the camera seemingly set up pretty well all things considered. Situation normal we see this all the time right. You'd normally tend to think that he looped it under plane. But those guys can hit it with their feet and bodies pointed any which way, right.

So where's he pointing his plane line really? Is that what you mean, Luke? Dont judge a book by looking at its foot line or stance? Those inclined plane lines are subject to parallax and further more we dont really know what he is trying to do and we shouldnt make any assumptions given his setup, foot line in particular.

Second one is Sweetspot plane of motion only which shows a nice little 2D ish circle seen in perspective ...which means that circle has a plane and a plane line which appears to point right to some degree. If it points far enough right of where the ball started you've got Divergence, tilted backspin and a draw.

Hmmm. That sweetspot orbit is more telling isnt it! The path of the sweetspot vs face angle is what its really all about I guess right? Well Ill be. In the photo below his shaft even appears to be planed to the sweetspot orbit far better than the assumed plane line . I gotta do some more thinking on this.

Or maybe Im all wrong again and Stricker just totally pooched that shot. Where'd it end up anyways, Luke.

"2-F PLANE OF MOTION All the action of the Golf Club takes place on a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumference of the stroke - in every direction. The full length of the Clubshaft remains unwaveringly on the face of this Inclined Plane - Waggle to Follow-through. Every other Component of the Stroke must be adjusted to comply with that requirement. See Sketch 1-L. That includes the Right Forearm. See 5-0. The player must hold the Forearm in the Feel of the same plane per 7-3, dynamically in-line. Picture the javelin thrower with the right elbow and On Plane right forearm leading the hand toward the target (Delivery Line) all during Delivery. See 6-B-1. The Right Forearm of every Hacker comes into Impact too high - pointing beyond the Delivery Line during Downstroke (2-J-3, 7-3). Study 2-G and Components 5, 6, and 7.

Regardless of where the Clubshaft and Clubhead are joined together, it always feels as if they are joined at the Sweet Spot - the longitudinal center of gravity, the line of the pull of Centrifugal Force. So there is a “Clubshaft” Plane and a “Sweet Spot,” or “Swing”, Plane. But herein, unless otherwise noted, “Plane Angle” and “Plane Line” always refer to the Center of Gravity application. Study 2-N. Except during Impact, the Clubshaft can travel on, or to- and - from, either Plane because the Clubshaft rotation must be around the Sweet Spot - not vice versa. So Clubhead “Feel” is Clubhead Lag Pressure (6-C) and is a Golfing Imperative. (2-0). If Lag Pressure is lost the Hands tend to start the hosel (instead of the Sweet Spot) toward Impact - that mysterious “Shank.” When in doubt, “Turn” the Clubface so both the Clubshaft and Sweet Spot will be on the same plane at Start Down. Both Planes always pass through the Lag Pressure Point. Study 6-C-2-A.

There are some very simple but very accurate checks for being “On Plane.” Whenever the Clubshaft is parallel to the ground it must also be parallel to the base line of the Inclined Plane which is usually (but not always) the Line of Flight also.

Otherwise, the end of the Club that is closest to the ground must be pointing at the base line of the Inclined Plane - or extensions of that line, even if they must be extended to the horizon."

So, the Clubshaft is much less important to me than the COG application.

And, I agree with you that there are many questions when looking at a video: Stance Line? Delivery Line? Intended Curvature? Intended Trajectory?

I find this thread fascinating and desperately want to participate, but I've got nothin'.

I just want to be sure you know there are other interested onlookers. Thanks Ted!

Kevin

Originally Posted by O.B.Left You'd normally tend to think that he looped it under plane. But those guys can hit it with their feet and bodies pointed any which way, right.

Regardless of his plane of motion and the camera angle there should be a symmetry around the drawn plane line before and after low point. If he were swinging on a flat plane, that is. His sweet spot is clearly inside of the drawn line towards impact. Yet he stays on the line past impact. If he were moving the sweeet spot on a flat plane he should be moving outside the line past impact.

Originally Posted by BerntR Regardless of his plane of motion and the camera angle there should be a symmetry around the drawn plane line before and after low point. If he were swinging on a flat plane, that is. His sweet spot is clearly inside of the drawn line towards impact. Yet he stays on the line past impact. If he were moving the sweeet spot on a flat plane he should be moving outside the line past impact.

Hey Bernt I dont know how to draw the plane line over top of the dots.....maybe Luke or D can.

But when I hold a pencil up to where Luke drew the plane line in this picture below I see the dots on the far side, post impact, emerging above the plane line but seemingly way closer to the plane line. If you know what I mean. Anyways Im thinking it could be perspective, illusionary. What do you think?

If you take a CD and draw a straight line down its center , 12 to 6 o'clock on the dial and then turn it to an oblique angle similar to Mr. Strickers sweetspot plane of motion ......would not the far side of the cd look closer to the center line than the near side?

Just wondering ....... Either that or he bent his Sweetspot plane of motion , bent the CD down the middle.

Well now I don't feel so bad about being under plane with shoulders closed with not much of a divot.

Originally Posted by gmbtempe Well now I don't feel so bad about being under plane with shoulders closed with not much of a divot.

Is SS an Elbow Plane guy? Is the Plane determined by the # 3 PP location as it travels? Would that then make hip an almost TSP ?


ICT

Originally Posted by O.B.Left But when I hold a pencil up to where Luke drew the plane line in this picture below I see the dots on the far side, post impact, emerging above the plane line but seemingly way closer to the plane line. If you know what I mean. Anyways Im thinking it could be perspective, illusionary. What do you think?

I see the same as you. He seems to be on the plane that Mr Skywalker drew after impact and inside before. I can't understand how this is possible withoug some plane bending going on.

A swing from Memorial 2011, Steve has changed a few things, I see more structure (sort of flying wedges), no longer under-plane approach to the ball and right forearm on plane at impact. His right shoulder is almost on plane in the dowswing.



I could be wrong, let me know what you think !

If you keep your right arm bent well into the DS, like these guys, then you can stay in your posture. If it straightens out early your machine will pull up so you don't hit six inches behind it.

Seperates hackers and pros IMO.

stricker swing is absurdly simple, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Etzwane A swing from Memorial 2011, Steve has changed a few things, I see more structure (sort of flying wedges), no longer under-plane approach to the ball and right forearm on plane at impact. His right shoulder is almost on plane in the dowswing.

I could be wrong, let me know what you think !

The camera perspective is really bad, making it difficult to see much. It seems like the camera is around 6 feet off the ground and aligned with the ball, instead of the plane. The camera angle is the reason I really liked the first one that I posted. It's so hard to find good camera angles on TV. But, I do LOVE that motion!

Maybe, Steve is using the "W" plane...

...for "Winner!"

Morning Ted, when using video do you put the camera at hand height and through the players hands? Hope all good with you.

Originally Posted by Ian Clark Morning Ted, when using video do you put the camera at hand height and through the players hands? Hope all good with you.

Everything is great. I hope you're well.

I do put the camera at the height of the hands, but I move it to the right a few inches as if the camera needed to see past the hands. Since the overwhelming majority of my best players use a Plane that's between the Elbow and TS Plane (and not shaft or hands), it's a good place for the camera to see through the side of the Plane. Also, I prefer to see the Clubhead from Release to Impact. I see plenty of video at shoulder height, many times because the camera guy (on Tour) is holding the camera on his shoulder. And, when using video and observing a Plane Shift, the greatest variance will be farther up Plane or away from the ball. So, it's not a good place for a camera.

Did you get the settings right on the F1 to get the clarity you wanted?