With my few remaining brain cells, I have hopefully figured out this most elusive of phrases, the left hand karate chop. As a swinger, one keeps the left palm face down to the inclined plane, and allows the pivot to swing the left arm in a left hand karate chop motion downplane until the release point, where the left wrist uncocks and the left hand no longer faces down on the inclined plane, but swivels through the impact zone, sequentially.
The problem I had with the above was I was aiming the uncocking left wrist at the ball or aiming point, which I thought one was supposed to do. That meant I was probably tracing the plane line with my left arm.
I think I understand now. One performs the left hand karate chop at the ball, but one aims PP#3 , not the left wrist or left hand . Significant difference since PP#3 and the left wrist are separated by about 5-6 inches. That way, one is tracing the plane line with the right forearm and PP#3 while at the same time perfroming the left hand karate chop motion with the left arm, wrist and hand.
Haven't tried this yet, but I hope this may finally clear up the confusion my body and brain have had with simultaneous and sequential release. I have been unintentionally performing a simultaneous release while swinging. Swinging with one long swivel from the top, where my left hand does not stay palm down to the plane. It immediately rolls at startdown.Not good for swinging.
To sum up, I hope this is correct. Swingers left hand karate chop PP#3 towards the aiming point or inside corner of the ball.
Sounds like you got it!
You got it.
Number 3 aims only. No thrust for swingers and the left hand will uncock in it's karate chop motion. This is the period of clubhead acceleration. The hands stay at the same basic speed but the overtaking of the clubhead is through the downplane uncocking of the left wrist. The roll into impact is automagic.
You don't have to force the roll (horizontal hinge) into and through impact. Just trust it.
Bagger
Originally Posted by DDL
Swingers left hand karate chop PP#3 towards the aiming point or inside corner of the ball.
DDL,
When
Swinging, it helps to think of the
Hands -- both the Karate-Chopping
Left and the Lag Pressure-Sensing
Right -- as the 'point' of the
Left Arm Flying Wedge (the Left Arm and Club). Then,
drive them directly toward the Ball (or alternative Aiming Point). When
Hitting, think of the Hands as the 'point' of the
Right Forearm Flying Wedge, and do the same.
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by DDL
Swingers left hand karate chop PP#3 towards the aiming point or inside corner of the ball.
DDL,
When Swinging, it helps to think of the Hands -- both the Karate-Chopping Left and the Lag Pressure-Sensing Right -- as the 'point' of the Left Arm Flying Wedge (the Left Arm and Club). Then, drive them directly toward the Ball (or alternative Aiming Point). When Hitting, think of the Hands as the 'point' of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge, and do the same.
Is this the same as imagining PP#3 as an extension of the left arm flying wedge, thus I am attempting to smash the ball/aiming point/plane line with PP#3 via a left arm flying wedge karate chop motion?
Originally Posted by DDL
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by DDL
Swingers left hand karate chop PP#3 towards the aiming point or inside corner of the ball.
DDL,
When Swinging, it helps to think of the Hands -- both the Karate-Chopping Left and the Lag Pressure-Sensing Right -- as the 'point' of the Left Arm Flying Wedge (the Left Arm and Club). Then, drive them directly toward the Ball (or alternative Aiming Point). When Hitting, think of the Hands as the 'point' of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge, and do the same.
Is this the same as imagining PP#3 as an extension of the left arm flying wedge, thus I am attempting to smash the ball/aiming point/plane line with PP#3 via a left arm flying wedge karate chop motion?
When Swinging,
Centrifugal Force is doing the actual 'Smashing.' The #3 Pressure Point is only guiding -- aiming -- this Thrust. When Hitting,
Right Elbow Muscle Power against the #3 Pressure Point supplies both Aiming
and Thrust.
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by DDL
Swingers left hand karate chop PP#3 towards the aiming point or inside corner of the ball.
DDL,
When Swinging, it helps to think of the Hands -- both the Karate-Chopping Left and the Lag Pressure-Sensing Right -- as the 'point' of the Left Arm Flying Wedge (the Left Arm and Club). Then, drive them directly toward the Ball (or alternative Aiming Point). When Hitting, think of the Hands as the 'point' of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge, and do the same.
=D>
Thank you, this thread is quite helpful to me.
Wouldn't it be easier to visualize a right arm/wrist karate chop? That way the right arm is used for clubhead control and the left hand for clubface control. Clear and distinctly different roles. Another aspect of the left hand karate chop that confused me was that it placed clubhead control onto the wrong arm. Think about the bent back right wrist doing a karate chop motion with the right palm face up to the inclined plane.
Originally Posted by DDL
Wouldn't it be easier to visualize a right arm/wrist karate chop? That way the right arm is used for clubhead control and the left hand for clubface control. Clear and distinctly different roles. Another aspect of the left hand karate chop that confused me was that it placed clubhead control onto the wrong arm. Think about the bent back right wrist doing a karate chop motion with the right palm face up to the inclined plane.
The
Swinger Loads the
Left Wrist and Triggers
centrifugually the
Sequenced Release of the Left Wrist and Hand. Hence the 'Left Hand Karate Chop' (Palm down to the Plane)
followed by the Left Hand Swivel.
The
Hitter Loads the
Right Elbow and Triggers
muscularly the
Simultaneous Release of the Left Wrist and Hand. Hence, there is no Left Hand Karate Chop Motion nor any Left Hand Swivel. Instead,
driven by the straightening Right Arm, the Left Wrist Uncocks as the Left Hand Rolls. In this manner, the Left Palm immediately begins its return from its
On Plane alignment at the Top to its
Vertical alignment at Impact.
Can a swinger still set up at impact fix and use the right forearm pickup procedure for the takeaway?
Originally Posted by Mitchdoc
Can a swinger still set up at impact fix and use the right forearm pickup procedure for the takeaway?
The Swinger should definitely use the
Right Forearm Takeaway, whether from
Fix or preferably,
Adjusted Address.
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by Mitchdoc
Can a swinger still set up at impact fix and use the right forearm pickup procedure for the takeaway?
The Swinger should definitely use the Right Forearm Takeaway, whether from Fix or preferably, Adjusted Address.
I second that motion!!!! Really, no pun intended!!!
DG
Originally Posted by Mitchdoc
Can a swinger still set up at impact fix and use the right forearm pickup procedure for the takeaway?
I use a swinging procedure with right forearm pickup for the takeaway. You can setup at impact fix or classic address position(left wrist bent, right wrist straight).
For the longer clubs, I use classic address postion and impact fix postion for the shorter clubs. I think it is easier to keep the club on-plane for the takeaway with the classic address postion. If I am off-base with what I just wrote, I am sure Yoda will correct this information.
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by Mitchdoc
Can a swinger still set up at impact fix and use the right forearm pickup procedure for the takeaway?
The Swinger should definitely use the Right Forearm Takeaway, whether from Fix or preferably, Adjusted Address.
Well maybe you can clear the fog then Yoda
I was under the impression that one of the key differences between hiting and swinging was that on the takeaway for swingers there is an early turn of the forearms so that at the top, the pp#3 is under the shaft instead of behind it as in hitting. How does the right forearm differ in mtion then between swingers, hitter?
Do you plan to post any video of the right forearm pickup and establishing impact fix? This would be of so much value to us seeking the true light of the force!
I may be wrong, but....
The location of #3pp for a swinger with the feel of it being under the shaft is due to the position of the hands at the top of a longer backswing and the turn of the hands. All hand and wrist actions are a loading procedure. Swingers using 10-18-A Standard, turn and cock on the backstroke and roll and uncock on the downstroke. This loading procedure will give the feel of #3pp relocating but it is always behind the shaft and will be there-behind- at impact.
The right forearm take away motion should be the same for both strokes. The shorter shoulder level Hitter's top position using 10-18-C keeps #3pp aligned and the Swinger's longer top position using 10-18-A requires an unroll and swivel into a impact. The take away motion is the same, the loading procedure of the hands are different.
Sounds logical but I thought with hitting one uses angled hinging so it is a no roll feel. If one turns and cocks the left hand/wrist on the takeaway, then the right forearm pickup move can't be the same, if one is n't doing this in hitting.
I am just wondering how do incorporate this swivel etc.
I ask because I knowI was definitely a swinger, and while I am trying hitting out, and liing it, I suspect for the long clubs swinging might produce more distance for me. I am 5'8 155 so my muscular thrust is perhaps not as great as what CF can generate. (I get about 103-107 mph swingspeed with my usual swing, not sure with hitting)
I played a practice round at my course today and wanted to try a few things I've experimented with on the range.
Today it was a few things to solidify my pattern but the surprise motion was to take the left hand karate chop as deep into the downswing as possible without worrying about left wrist roll. Down, down, as low as she would go. A no release feel. No left wrist manipulation for horizontal hinging.
My trust level was low. I used old ratty balls just in case the results would be as predicted.
Surprisingly enough I didn't push a single shot right. If anything, the horizontal hinge motion felt like a quick rollover snap. It was a very reliable snap roll through impact with a nice divot in front of the ball.
This worked very well from Driver to Lob Wedge. My miss was a pull and it was caused by not tracing a straight planeline past impact. I also noticed a slight distance loss until I realized I wasn't employing enough extensor action. Then it was boom town.
Very cool experiencing a later release but to use it, you have to trust it.
Next time I'm taking some ProV1's out of the box.
thats so cool,
On what plane are you travelling on?
Originally Posted by nuke99
On what plane are you travelling on?
Turned Shoulder Plane
I use a flat backstroke shoulder turn to get there. Sets the hands and right shoulder on the TSP. Then its easy to take the power package downplane.
B.L.,
Was the "CHOP" down the "turned shoulder plane" (AS YOU PRECIEVE IT) @ the target line or was it at something else? Was the hands "CHOP", straight line on plane (AS VIEWED FACE ON) or arcing (CIRCULAR) on plane?
Jay
