Manipulated-hands Swinger

birdie_man
Do they still horizontally hinge? Or is that just for CF swingers? (ala Bobby Jones- he is a CF swinger, right?)
Matt
A manipulated hands swinger is just a swinger that doesn't use pure horizontal hinging all the time. If you're a swinger and use angled hinging, then you're deemed a 'manipulated hands swinger.' All it means is that you can use multiple hinge actions to hit shots, whereas the 'true swinger' relies solely on centrifugal force and must use horizontal hinging.
powerdraw
so how do you go from manipulated hands swinger to a free wheelin full CF'in HH swinga?
jim_0068
manipulated hands swinger =

ben hogan
jack nicklaus

Especially jack, he was an angled hinging swinger.
powerdraw
Originally Posted by powerdraw so how do you go from manipulated hands swinger to a free wheelin full CF'in HH swinga?
anybody got an answer to this?
powerdraw
so then ball control would be left up to ball positioning, keerect?
and AH and VH would be manipulated hands swinger on purpose?
Yoda
Originally Posted by powerdraw so then ball control would be left up to ball positioning, keerect?
and AH and VH would be manipulated hands swinger on purpose?
For the True Swinger, Centrifugal Force automatically and exclusively produces Horizontal Hinge Action. Therefore, when considering Directional Factors, Ball Control (Zone #3) is limited to Ball Location, Plane Angle and Plane Line Rotation. The Delivery Path and Release Components further control Distance Factors.

As you have suggested, this renders Angled and Vertical Hinging the exclusive province of the Manipulated Hands Swinger (and Hitter). However, the choice of Hinge Action does not differentiate the True Swinger from his Manipulated Hands counterpart. That is because the Manipulated Hands Swinger can also use Horizontal Hinging.

In fact, the term 'Manipulated Hands' refers only incidentally to any Hand Manipulation of the Clubface during the Swing. Instead, it designates the ability to produce straight Shots from any Ball Location (and not just the one dictated by Centrifugal Force when it alone aligns the Clubface). This is accomplished prior to the Stroke by taking the Grip with the Left Hand in its Flat, Level and Vertical Impact Condition and with the Clubface aligned according to the intended Hinge Action.
powerdraw
thanks lynn, i havent been around here much eh! lol

so its an option but what are the downfalls of manipulated hands swing?
Yoda
Originally Posted by powerdraw
...what are the downfalls of manipulated hands swing?
There is no downside to Manipulated Hands Swinging. In fact, Homer Kelley specifically discouraged True Swinging due to the terrific problem of Ball Location.
Burner
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by powerdraw
...what are the downfalls of manipulated hands swing?
There is no downside to Manipulated Hands Swinging. In fact, Homer Kelley specifically discouraged True Swinging due to the terrific problem of Ball Location.
Are we, therefore, saying that any hand manipulation is best done at address as opposed to during the actual swinging process?
Yoda
Originally Posted by Burner
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by powerdraw
...what are the downfalls of manipulated hands swing?
There is no downside to Manipulated Hands Swinging. In fact, Homer Kelley specifically discouraged True Swinging due to the terrific problem of Ball Location.
Are we, therefore, saying that any hand manipulation is best done at address as opposed to during the actual swinging process?
Hand Manipulation is accomplished at Impact Fix with the Hands Location established per 7-8 and with the Clubface aligned per 2-J-1. The Feel of the selected Stroke Pattern (Total Motion) is then rehearsed in the Adjusted Address Routine of 3-F-5 -- Practice Swing, Waggle and Forward Press.
Burner
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by Burner
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by powerdraw
...what are the downfalls of manipulated hands swing?
There is no downside to Manipulated Hands Swinging. In fact, Homer Kelley specifically discouraged True Swinging due to the terrific problem of Ball Location.
Are we, therefore, saying that any hand manipulation is best done at address as opposed to during the actual swinging process?
Hand Manipulation is accomplished at Impact Fix with the Hands Location established per 7-8 and with the Clubface aligned per 2-J-1. The Feel of the selected Stroke Pattern (Total Motion) is then rehearsed in the Adjusted Address Routine of 3-F-5.
Thank you.

Demisting accomplished.
Yoda
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf Yoda,

Can you give us examples in the book where Homer talks about "Hand Manipulated Swingers".....page numbers would be great!!!

Thanks,

DG
For Directional Factors, see 7-2, paragraph one, page 92. Beginning with sixth line ("For Swingers...") to the end of the paragraph. For Distance Factors, see also 6-N-0-1, page 88, and 6-R-0 (second paragraph), page 89.
Anonymous
Thanks....

DG
drewitgolf
Yoda,

When moving from "True Swinger" to "Hand Manipulated Swinger" using angled hinging, the release motions become simulateous rather then sequenced?
Yoda
Originally Posted by drewitgolf Yoda,

When moving from "True Swinger" to "Hand Manipulated Swinger" using angled hinging, do the release motions become simulateous rather then sequenced?
Excellent question, Drew.

The Manipulated Hands Swinger using Angled Hinging does override the natural tendency of Centrifugal Force to align the Clubface for Horizontal Hinging. However, Centrifugal Force continues to align the Clubshaft, and the Release Motions remain sequenced.
powerdraw
i'd like to learn more about how we do manipulate it at setup and address...for desired shot. can we go into detail here?

i thought it was manipulated through release not at setup....hhmmm...
more more more please!
tongzilla
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by Burner
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by powerdraw
...what are the downfalls of manipulated hands swing?
There is no downside to Manipulated Hands Swinging. In fact, Homer Kelley specifically discouraged True Swinging due to the terrific problem of Ball Location.
Are we, therefore, saying that any hand manipulation is best done at address as opposed to during the actual swinging process?
Hand Manipulation is accomplished at Impact Fix with the Hands Location established per 7-8 and with the Clubface aligned per 2-J-1. The Feel of the selected Stroke Pattern (Total Motion) is then rehearsed in the Adjusted Address Routine of 3-F-5 -- Practice Swing, Waggle and Forward Press.
So, manipulated hands swinger is not about manipulating your hands during the swing. It refers to manipulating the clubface at impact fix before taking the grip, and then swinging as you would normally. [EDIT: and adjusting Aiming Point if you want.] Correct?

The bad thing about being a true swinger is because an exact ball location is needed to produce a straighaway flight. Correct?

However, Yoda says there is no downside to manipulated hands swinging. Well, IMO, all that has happened is instead of being precise about ball location, the focus has shifted on the degree of clubface manipulation needed at impact fix to produce a straighaway flight. So the only difference is that being a true swinger, you use ball location to produce straightaway flight, while a manipulated hands swinger uses clubface adjustment before making the swing to produce straightaway flight.

So the "terrific problem of Ball Location" is now a terrific problem of clubface manipulation at impact fix.

Hmm....