As a newbie to TGM, I am trying to come up to speed as quickly as possible with the nomenclature and fundamentals. Please bear with me....
The question I have is related to the extra "cupping" I get in the right wrist if/when I cock the left wrist in the back swing.
From the various TGM and LBG videos I've watched, I know:
1) The importance of maintaining the left and right arm flying wedges throughout the swing.
2) The Left Wrist can cock in the vertical plane (i.e. but it can't rotate or turn).
3) The right forearm needs to be on plane with the shaft and the right wrist needs to be at the same flying wedge angle as impact fix no later than the top of the backswing.
4) Lynn espouses that the angle of the right flying wedge should be maintained throughout the swing (or well into the finish).
When I cock the left wrist, however, the right wrist is bent back (i.e. "cupped" in Ben Hogan-speak) much further than the angle at impact fix (the right forearm is still on plane, however).
Because the grip of the right hand is such that the left thumb fits into the life-line of the right hand, it would seem that ANY cocking of the left hand would automatically change the angle of the right wrist as well.
To me it seems that if you want to take advantage of any wrist cocking (power accumulator # ??), you can't possibly maintain a constant right wrist angle.
Hopefully, I described my confusion in the proper terms...
Look towards what the relationship between the bending right arm and left wrist cock action is.
Originally Posted by ckniker
As a newbie to TGM, I am trying to come up to speed as quickly as possible with the nomenclature and fundamentals. Please bear with me....
The question I have is related to the extra "cupping" I get in the right wrist if/when I cock the left wrist in the back swing.
From the various TGM and LBG videos I've watched, I know:
1) The importance of maintaining the left and right arm flying wedges throughout the swing.
2) The Left Wrist can cock in the vertical plane (i.e. but it can't rotate or turn).
3) The right forearm needs to be on plane with the shaft and the right wrist needs to be at the same flying wedge angle as impact fix no later than the top of the backswing.
4) Lynn espouses that the angle of the right flying wedge should be maintained throughout the swing (or well into the finish).
When I cock the left wrist, however, the right wrist is bent back (i.e. "cupped" in Ben Hogan-speak) much further than the angle at impact fix (the right forearm is still on plane, however).
Because the grip of the right hand is such that the left thumb fits into the life-line of the right hand, it would seem that ANY cocking of the left hand would automatically change the angle of the right wrist as well.
To me it seems that if you want to take advantage of any wrist cocking (power accumulator # ??), you can't possibly maintain a constant right wrist angle.
Hopefully, I described my confusion in the proper terms...
Could type a big giant reply....but seeing is believing....here are model wedge alignments....level unstressed froze right wrist...when you have your right wrist level with an open hand if you were to extend your arm parallel to the ground your fingers would point down to the ground on a diagonal....level is pretty close to uncocked....this may not be what people think of as the sexiest swing...but these wedge alignments are freakin' perfect....NO COCKING IN THE RIGHT WRIST AT ALL...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...U&feature=fvwp
Its very grip type dependent too. A 10-2-D would see the left wrist cocking bend the right hand proportionaly for instance.
Send a photo of your grip maybe and your backswing from down the line. I wouldn't do that personally given the nut bars around here but ....
Unfortunately, the videos that you reference are inaccessible at this precise moment.
However, the other Steve Stricker Youtube videos that are visible show a swing with minimal (if any) left wrist cocking in the backswing (in my very inexperienced and humble opinion).
I'm OK with this but I just can't figure out how you can accomplish a cocking left wrist without also cupping the right wrist to an equal extent. It just doesn't seem possible.
Try making a backswing without a club. Right arm bends from the get go of the backswing takeaway. They work together. If you only cock the left wrist and keep the elbow in the same bent, then you screw up the right wrist alignment.
Originally Posted by golfguru
Try making a backswing without a club. Right arm bends from the get go of the backswing takeaway. They work together. If you only cock the left wrist and keep the elbow in the same bent, then you screw up the right wrist alignment.
Interesting bit of reverse engineering Doctor. Never thought of that one.
I
think I have the answer to my question. Please respond if my understanding is still incorrect.
According to Lynn in the Drills DVD (under the drill entitled "Educating the Right Wrist"), the right wrist can "turn and roll".
However, another video taken from YouTube ("Dowels Wedges") shows Lynn saying that the right is wrist is incorrectly positioned by "cocking and uncocking".
As an aside, I think I understand the subtleties between turning/rolling and cocking/uncocking. However, Lynn's wrist action seems very similar in both these particular cases (even though he said one was correct and the other incorrect).
Back to the point, I can only assume that the act of rolling the right wrist allows the left wrist to cock in the backswing while maintaining the correct impact fix flying wedge of the right forearm.
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
Could type a big giant reply....but seeing is believing....here are model wedge alignments....level unstressed froze right wrist...when you have your right wrist level with an open hand if you were to extend your arm parallel to the ground your fingers would point down to the ground on a diagonal....level is pretty close to uncocked....this may not be what people think of as the sexiest swing...but these wedge alignments are freakin' perfect....NO COCKING IN THE RIGHT WRIST AT ALL...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...U&feature=fvwp
Sorry, but in both videos at the :08 mark, the right wrist has clearly cocked up from the LEVEL(partially uncocked) position. ANY swing in which the club is swung up over the right shoulder with the shaft pointing targetward, even if not horizontal, HAS to cock the right wrist. Were his right wrist level at the Top, the shaft would point straight up or backwards. Most tour players cock the right wrist, and just because TGM prescribes otherwise, the reality can't be denied.
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
Sorry, but in both videos at the :08 mark, the right wrist has clearly cocked up from the LEVEL(partially uncocked) position. ANY swing in which the club is swung up over the right shoulder with the shaft pointing targetward, even if not horizontal, HAS to cock the right wrist. Were his right wrist level at the Top, the shaft would point straight up or backwards. Most tour players cock the right wrist, and just because TGM prescribes otherwise, the reality can't be denied.
I'm not seeing that..... but fine with me...bottom line is this dude's right wrist is as close to motionless as far as cocking goes as it gets....I'm pretty sure that reality can't be denied as well. Certainly Stricker has less motion than most....I still stand by the statement that his wedge alignments are model according to strict definition. But of course people can do whatever they want with their components....but I think Stricker's wedge alignments are as precise as anybody's....not big on some of the other stuff he does but I dig the wedges.
Not to beat a dead horse, but....
I'm agreement with both of you.
1) Steve Stricker's swing looks like a picture perfect model of the TGM flying wedge alignments.
2) it looks like Stricker has minimal or zero left wrist cock.
The more I think I about this, the more I've come to the conclusion that if the hands are joined together (without slippage), the only way one could cock a flat left wrist while maintaining the fixed impact angle in the right wrist would be if the right wrist angle was 90 degrees (i.e. the right wrist is perpendicular to the left wrist). OR the right elbow is flying all over the place...
Nonetheless, I'm OK with the fundamental ideals and am not looking to get too hung up in the minutia. I just want to make sure I have the basic Mechanics correct so that I don't groove the incorrect feel.
Ckniker.
I haven't been thinking about the frozen right wrist for a while, but I have found something that is very solid back and through, while working mainly with the pivot. But it is hardly a coincidence that the right wrist is level bent at the top and remains so throughout the down stroke.
You can match the left wrist cocking and uncocking with the right elbow bending and straightening. When you get it, there is no limit as to how much left wrist cock you can apply. But you need a setup and a rhythm that makes the left wrist cock blend in with a frozen right wrist / bending and straightening of the right elbow.
In order to make it work you also need to move the whole primary lever (left arm plus club) as one single unit . No independant & flippy club motion. But that is also a BIG reason for doing it. You also need a fundamentally sound posture with sufficient forward tilting of your spine / sufficient steep down swing shoulder turn, amongst other things. .
When you make it work, the right hand and arm becomes a very powerful companion to the left side and you're set for a super solid impact. If you like to hit, you can hit it hard and if you prefer to swing you've set yourself up to brace your impact alignment with a rock solid extensior action.
Any cocking and uncocking of the right wrist may disrupt the rhythmic relationship between the left arm and the club, and may induce a flip or at least a discontinuity in the lag pressure - at least to the extent that you actually use the right hand in the down stroke. If you're a swinger with little or no extensior action the frozen right wrist is less important.
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
Sorry, but in both videos at the :08 mark, the right wrist has clearly cocked up from the LEVEL(partially uncocked) position. ANY swing in which the club is swung up over the right shoulder with the shaft pointing targetward, even if not horizontal, HAS to cock the right wrist. Were his right wrist level at the Top, the shaft would point straight up or backwards. Most tour players cock the right wrist, and just because TGM prescribes otherwise, the reality can't be denied.
Homer likened to it an airplanes landing gear, me I like the pneumatic door closer. Try spreading your hands apart on the shaft to see how the right hand does not need to cock necessarily.
I'm not sure I understand the airplane landing gear analogy but spreading the hands apart helps to visualize what should be going on with the right wrist....
Thanks to all....
You could cock the right wrist ....lots of guys do, but it adds precious little to power and breaks the Right Forearm Flying Wedge . Something you would have to re align prior to Impact if you want it structural advantage. So why bother if simplification is a goal.
Lynn told me that a one armed golfer might need to cock the right hand. Food for thought.
Try chipping with just right arm and feel , see the Structural Advantage of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge through the shot. Once you feel it you'll never want to break it for any shot of any length ......and you dont need to. Its like a battering ram swinging or hitting. And something you can Trace with too. Power and Direction.
(keep the right hand level, the right forearm in line with shaft from DTL, freeze the right wrist in its bent at fix position or bend it back a tad in transition and then freeze it if you prefer, fan and bend the right forearm and right elbow.... and always always try to feel the lag pressure. Youre good , nutted chips with compression will always be accompanied by lag pressure! You can take this one armed chipping very seriously , Tiger does as he warms up before every round. I know a guy who chips like that on the course to overcome his chip yips and hes a good chipper.
