Flip Release

Having trouble understanding the difference between an "Auto Snap Release" and an "Auto Flip Release". ??

TIA, David

How about this for rephrasing your question.

See which one or all of these is/are what you were trying to figure out.

1) How does the "automatic" differ between the two procedures?
2) How does the aiming point procedure differ from the Flip release procedure?
3) Since both procedures - aiming point (a fixed plane line point controlled procedure) and Flip Release (moving body controlled procedure) are methods for controlling the release point of the release and can control/produce any release point from full sweep to snap - I'm curious how the snap release would be different between the two?

Originally Posted by Mike O How about this for rephrasing your question.

See which one or all of these is/are what you were trying to figure out.

1) How does the "automatic" differ between the two procedures?
2) How does the aiming point procedure differ from the Flip release procedure?
3) Since both procedures - aiming point (a fixed plane line point controlled procedure) and Flip Release (moving body controlled procedure) are methods for controlling the release point of the release and can control/produce any release point from full sweep to snap - I'm curious how the snap release would be different between the two?

And on the day I have just convinced myself that Aiming Point was a concept not a prtocedure but a suamtion of procedures. Now U have messed -up my mind, again, maybe.

HB

Originally Posted by HungryBear And on the day I have just convinced myself that Aiming Point was a concept not a prtocedure but a suamtion of procedures. Now U have messed -up my mind, again, maybe.

HB

It is a procedure - it's a point on the plane line at which you thrust the lag pressure at PP#3 from the Top or after a plane shift, and is one of HK's greatest contributions!

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe It is a procedure - it's a point on the plane line at which you thrust the lag pressure at PP#3 from the Top or after a plane shift, and is one of HK's greatest contributions!

Lets put it out for discussion-
Is aming point:
A concept
or
A procedure
???

HB

Its both procedure and concept IMO in that it is at least two quite different procedures and one subconscious done by everybody feel based concept.

IMO, the first of the Aiming POint procedures is the intentional looking at a point fore or aft of the ball along the Arc of Approach to help the lever in hand arrive at its impact fix alignment easier given that longer levers switch ends slower. (Changes in the Release Point are a consideration as well in this regard).


The non procedure version is the subconscious manner in which a golfer gets a "feel " for the manner in which a certain stick , lever switches ends and adjusts accordingly . This we all do with a waggle or practice swing. Whether we know we are doing it or not.

There is a direction of thrust Aiming Point procedure as well which can be used as an alternative to Tracing. Instead of Tracing the Plane LIne you thrust cross line in accordance with the amount of OUT inherent in the 3 dimensional delivery path of the hands given ball placement. Like throwing a stone with your #3 pp at the point on the ball which is associated with the delivery path of the clubhead. The point of contact on the ball being Inside aft or more back of the ball as the ball gets positioned closer to low point.


The flip release on the other hand has a singular release point for every club , done in relation to the body , subconsciously . Like say for instance you are "getting stuck", you cant get your right elbow past your right hip or stomach. Release ensuing. Talking release of #4 here , IMO, not #2. #2 will follow given the 4, 1, 2,3 order of things. The Right Arm say when one gets stuck , cant pass the rigth hip so ... the left arm leaves the chest and the right arm straightens. This body related singular release point for every club , every length of stick, presents problems given the fact that longer levers take longer to switch ends, shorter ones take less time etc. As such the golfer needs to make adjustments to his Stance Line (open or closed) so the lever meets the ball sooner or later . Instead of adjusting his aiming point or his release point he adjusts other things , things that are still available to him .

I must admit I dont understand Homer in the 4th paragraph when he's talking about a singular ball position vis a vis the left foot etc. Can you clarify things Mike? That doesnt seem right to me.

I think, I dunno.

How are you doing Mike? Merry Christmas baby.

Quote:
10-24-F. AUTOMATIC FLIP RELEASE This procedure causes Impact (with all Clubs) to occur by an automatic "Flip" -quick or lazy¬ when the Hands reach a certain point in relation to the body, on the basis of Feel. This is usually a subconscious procedure and is indicated by the inability of a player to hit well with all Clubs, from a Square Stance. It faces the same problem of Club length that requires the Aiming Point procedures to move the Aiming Point fore or aft. The longer Clubs just take longer for the Clubhead to arrive at Impact location and position.

So the Open and Closed Stances are employed to vary the ball location in its relation to the body, to compensate for Clubshaft lengths. Maximum Open and Closed Stance positions, and the gradations in between, will differ per individual and must be worked out by experiment (see pictures in Chapter 9-1-1).

Open and Closed Stances are, of course, optional with the other Releases. But with the Flip addict it is a must. Even the Flip procedure itself can be utilized by any non-Flip addict who happens to prefer it and has the ability to switch from Aiming Point Releases. The Flip release is the result of the fact that the Right Arm (Accumulator # 1) will start to straighten, naturally and automatically, at any point in the Downstroke that the Left Arm begins to move away from the chest¬ which it always must, sooner or later. Regardless of where this occurs, the player's habitual Pivot procedure will bring the Hands, quite dependably, into Impact position at the same point relative to the body. But the slightest deviation in the Pivot procedure always affects the Line and sometimes the distance too.

For this Release type, the Left Heel is placed an inch or two forward of a line drawn, through the ball and at right angles to the Line of Flight, regardless of Stance. This affects -differently for each Club- the Plane Line selection (10-6) which, in turn, governs the Pivot selection and, consequently, all the Pivot Components (Zone I). Fix and Address will vary on the same basis. Few Components escape this influence. Exactly the same laws and procedures apply, but most Variations are dictated by which Club is being used. This requires a separate Stroke Pattern for every Club-for Zone # 1 at least. And Short Clubs tend to pull the ball while Long Clubs tend to push. It seems the simpler procedure, to correct this by adjusting the Grip toward a Hook Grip for the Longer Clubs and toward a Slice Grip for the Short Clubs, than to adjust the Plane Line, Plane Angle, etc. Also, the Flip tends toward Left Arm Power, Arm Throw Trigger and Pressure Points #2 and #4.

This Flip Release is quite widely used, because it has a "Feel" that most neophytes can "identify with." But it does not lend itself to the simpler Stroke Patterns of the "Aiming Point" procedures.

There is little attempt to discuss Components and Variations in connection with this procedure, elsewhere in the book, because the only real differences are (1) the fixed Hand location for Impact, and (2) the variable Plane Line for different length of Club.

Edit : Another Flip Release would be a feel for Rolling the Left Hand off its laying flat to plane condition at the same point in the swing vis a vis the body . That would be a "flip" like move after all. Something done habitually , perhaps by fear: to get back to Adjusted Address in a mis guided notion of what to do. I dunno. Homer was nuts so ... the better you understand what he was talking about the more nuts you must be too logically.

Originally Posted by O.B.Left I must admit I dont understand Homer in the 4th paragraph when he's talking about a singular ball position vis a vis the left foot etc. Can you clarify things Mike? That doesnt seem right to me.
I think, I dunno.

Good news for you - it didn't make sense to Homer either and that's why he changed it after the 3rd edition.

Hah !!!!!!

Originally Posted by O.B.Left Hah !!!!!!

Now, are U taloking me int being confused also?

In my edition 6:
middle second paragraph 6-E-2;
"This led to the assumption that one Release Feel would use one Ball location resulting in a constant struggle for consistency."
As I have interpreted it-
We have a choice-
Maintain the feel and move the ball
OR
Maintain the ball position and have a different feel for each club.
BUT
Never the same feel and position for all clubs.

I think this is 1 and 2 on page 83?

HB

First, let's decide what a flip release is. I've always considered a flip release as the substitution of a bent left wrist for both the proper uncocking of the LW, and Throwout.