Ryder Cup Hangover

I think the Ryder cup should remain as is....

On paper you guys should have a great shot and changing the rules just because USA is not winning is not the solution. Ok, the USA has done poorly the last few years but that will eventually change at some point and when it does - don't you want to feel that you won because you fairly won, and not just because you changed the rules....

I went w/ the Tiger option, but not because of Tiger. I'd just like to see the captain have more control over the makeup of the team. We've got some guys who just can't seem to get it done in match play but will likely be on the team for quite a while because they're good on tour.

Dunno if there is any truth to what some of the announcers said: "Europeans tend to play a lot more matchplay than Americans"

I'd say at least 75% of the rounds I play are in some kind of match format. Either team or individual.

Any difference there?

Four Words . . .

RIC FLAIR.

My suggestion is copied from some unkwnown reporter, Don't include the top 5 US players.

The team needs to be made up of the players that are playing the best over the last month or so. Let the captain have more choices.

We should go back to beating the U.K.! It takes an entire continent to handle the U.S.! I agree with Yoda in that the players on the U.S. Tour do not "play" as well for one another as the Euros do. I have heard (from those in the know) that the European Tour has a great deal more comraderie etc. I guess they develop that while enjoying competing with one another on the the runner-up tour in the world! Some say American players are pampered and spoiled, that in turn dampens the competitive drive. When European Tour based players start winning more majors I will buy into that. 2 out of 4 last year was a pretty good start, though!

OK,Okie,
Do you know how many golfers /golfcourses there are in Europe compared to the USA,
Look it up because I may be wrong,but something like 6 times as many people play golf in the USA.
Do you really want to go back to playing a country the size of Florida?-and whupping them every time!

You ARE wrong! After a quick search I turned up the following numbers: Number of courses in the UK = 200, number of courses in the U.S. = 16, 052 and rapidly counting! My comment was tongue in cheek. Perhaps European nations should compete as a team in the Olympics as well (tongue in cheek, again!) I love the way the European players get it together for the Ryder Cup. I absolutely loved watching Seve and Olazabal do their thing. I am not seriously advocating a return to the exhibition days, they were seldom a fair fight.

Sorry for the Ireland oversight! Who can forget the shot Christy O'Connor Jnr hit at the Belfry in '89! That one hurt! Was it Christy O'Connor Snr, or the Welshman Neil Coles that was a prodigious ball striker but had a fear of flying?

I am waiting for the inevitable complacency (that multiple wins produces) to set in! Then we will have another Kiawah Island (hopefully without the antics!) I almost cried for Bernhard Langer that year! What a class act he is. In fact, it seems like the traditional approach to golf in Europe tends to produce that kind of player. It's a Dutch game, made viable by the Scots and dominated by colonials! Insert tongue in cheek icon, here!

what does everyone think of the picks and who do you think will win?

Hunter Mahan can feel what its like to be a slave during Ryder Cup week. Wonder if he'll feel the same at the end?

On paper, Europe should win, but hell on paper the US should not have lost as many as they have!

I can't believe Faldo didn't pick Darren Clarke. Its tough on a guy who exactly fulfils the criteria for a wildcard pick but if only he'd been english eh?!!!!

Originally Posted by okie We should go back to beating the U.K.! It takes an entire continent to handle the U.S.! I agree with Yoda in that the players on the U.S. Tour do not "play" as well for one another as the Euros do. I have heard (from those in the know) that the European Tour has a great deal more comraderie etc. I guess they develop that while enjoying competing with one another on the the runner-up tour in the world! Some say American players are pampered and spoiled, that in turn dampens the competitive drive. When European Tour based players start winning more majors I will buy into that. 2 out of 4 last year was a pretty good start, though!

It was UK and Ireland before Europe joined in the fun not just the UK.

Well I like the Europeans winning every time, but then I am European.

The best solution to me is to pick form. Dont go by world rankings perse rather go by recent form perhaps taking points only from the 6 months prior to the Ryder Cup ie Feb through August with the PGA Championship being the final "points" event.

Then you get consistent performers in your team, plus those who really want to play in the Ryder Cup will be evident by how many events they play in that 6 month period.

The PGA should consider drawing 12 players out of a hat, excluding Woods and Mickelson from the pool. The U.S. might have a better chance of getting a team that is enthusiastic about playing and winning. Instead of posturing and whinning.

This opinion comes from first hand observation, at the K Club. Furyk and DiMarco carried thier playning partners around for two days. Tiger looked like he'ld would rather have been somewhere else. Phil looked like a man trying not to lose rather than a trying to win. His play was very indecisive.

Perhaps Azininger will have an advantage in addition to home field. He will not be faced with the decision to bench the best player in the world (galaxy), for lackluster play in foursomes and fourball matches. Other captians have failed to exercise or even consider this option.

Hopefully this years Ryder Cup will end the "Curse of the $". The U.S. Team has faired woefully since asking to be compensated for thier play in the Ryder Cup. I belive Mark O'Meara was very outspoken in his opinion that the players be compensated. The Euro's have sought no such monetary compensation. Representing thier respective countries, and recently thrashing highly overrated US teams, seems to be more than adequate reward for thier participation.

As a PGA of America member, I sincerely hope that the organization remembers Mr. O'Meara's leadership role in asking that players be compensated. If the PGA ever makes him a Capitain it would be a great mistake.

Almost as great an injustice as overlooking Larry Nelson as a Team Capitain. His quiet confidence and proven leadership as a player, and in service to his country, are qualities sorely missing from the US Team. See Yoda's post #20 in this thread for more details about a remarkable man. Well worth the read IMHO.

What if the American players were paid according to their performance and not just for showing up...I wonder if that would make a difference. I think its fair for some compensation...they are professionals making a living...without the players there is no event. Where does all the money go from TV coverage etc for the Ryder Cup? Some should go back to the players on both sides. Do baseball players get paid for their All-Star event or football player in the Pro Bowl event?...I think they do

Surely making the Ryder Cup team increases their off course endorsements. That should be recompense enough.

Anyone who wants paying for playing for their country (or continent) should just 'do one'.

Originally Posted by hg What if the American players were paid according to their performance and not just for showing up...I wonder if that would make a difference. I think its fair for some compensation...they are professionals making a living...without the players there is no event. Where does all the money go from TV coverage etc for the Ryder Cup? Some should go back to the players on both sides. Do baseball players get paid for their All-Star event or football player in the Pro Bowl event?...I think they do

Back in the early 70's, there was much talk within the PGA of America as to whether the membership should continue to support the Ryder Cup. The US had dominated the Great Britain and Ireland (GB & I), for decades. Interest in the event had wained and was being heavily subsidised by the PGA, not the PGA Tour. The matches had the appeal of US Mid Ametuer. No offense to the USGA, but I challenge you to find ten people, at your course, who can name last years champion.

A desicion was made to add the the continental Europe to the GB & I side. This decision was likey made to get a dynamic young Spaniard into the Ryder Cup. It was not until Europe started winning the Ryder Cup that the event became the event that it is today.

The players are independent contractors and can play in the Ryder Cup or not. It is obviously to there benefit to play (i.e. endorsement ad other revenues). The players and thier families incur zero expense (travel, food, lodging, etc.) to play in this event and live quite well, on the PGA's nickel.

The money raised from the Ryder Cup goes to growing the game of golf. The PGA of America. You can go to pga.com to see some of the work this non-profit organization does.

If the players do not want to play for thier country or give back to the game that has given them so much, than there are more than enough out there that are willing to take thier place. If such players do not exist then I am afraid our game is headed for the same scandal ridden behaviour that has plagued the other aforementioned sports.

I agree Sligo, if the players do not wan't to give back to the game that has given them so much then they shouldn't play.

All of the players, both European and US, are multi-millionaires. To qualify for their respective teams they must simply because of the prize money they must have won.

As such they do not need the money and I wonder why they should ask for it.

Yes they have their images and their participation adds to the spectacle. It wouldn't be the same if we didn't have Mickelson, Garcia, Harrington and Woods playing. If the Ryder Cup was played between two teams of random players from each side of the pond, would we watch it as avidly.

So the players could say that they add to the event and so shouldbenefit from that, but as Sligo says, they gain that in sponsorships and endorsements etc.

All money that is generated through the Ryder Cup should go back into the game.

If the US Team started thinking that way, they might actually put in a better performance. They might actually start playing as a team because they'll think to themselves "I'm here because I want to be here."

I can't help but think of Chris Riley when I think of the poor attitude to the Ryder Cup on the part of some US Team Members. In 2004 Woods finally go some points on the board after playing with Riley on Saturday morning. When asked by Irwin to play in the afternoon he cried off saying he wanted to be with his family. He'd just spent the whole previous day with them and the event is only 3 days long. A poor attitude lead to a poor result.

All of the above deserve to be efforted to some degree. However, I chose to afford the captain greater latitude in determining the composition of the team. There is a tremendous hole in this logic, but I will get to that.

My thoughts are that the current quantitative qualification is unreliable beyond the first 5 or 6 players. It does not take into account the momentum of the player, consistency, durability, persistency, or tenacity. Leave us not forget the value of experience, either. If they tracked this statistical process for 5 cycles (heaven help us), I am willing to wager it would show it has no validity in predicting the success of an individual in the Ryder Cup. Of greater importance, it denies the necessary long term "breeding" or perspective of the Ryder Cup institution, which needs to be taken beyond our quarterly earnings per share mentality.

Foremost, it should be explained to the PGA selection committee that denial is not a river in Egypt. Their assumption that stats will devine their Dream Team, obviates the reality that some players thrive beyond anticipated capabilities in the Ryder Cup formats. And quite often it is purely a result of teaming the proper players. A smart captain picks by twos, or picks a wild card who melds with a member of the core. A smart captain also pulls Tiger aside and tells him to make one pick. He tells him to make it good, because that is with whom he is going to be partnered. And he, as the best player in the world, will be held accountable for the outcome.

A smart captain. That's the hole in my selection. Four bad player selections is twice as bad as two. Which nicely scurries me to what I see as the true reason the US teams' effectiveness has smelled like my golf shoes after residing in my car trunk all summer.

As a part of undeniable realities, justice has a way of insisting upon itself. The US will be fighting a karmic uphill battle until Larry Nelson is made captain. Call it bad karma. Call it the Larry Nelson Curse. A pox which that fine man would graciously never wish upon the appropriate PGA demagogues. However, being basically intemperant and lacking Nelson's distinguished character, I most effortlessly wish upon them just desserts for denying the imperative choice. This is until this wrong has been righted, and justice and Nelson have been properly honored.

I hope that's not over the top. The Ryder Cup deserves consideration without politics, and abandonment of the cold statistics which replace thoughtful judgement.

Originally Posted by Yoda Thanks for this, metallion.

Conducting more match play events on the PGA TOUR is definitely another option. Especially in Team Format. Learn to win -- with a 'buddy.'

Could it happen?

Yes.

Will it happen?

Probably not.

Why?

Because it is not the 'culture' of the PGA TOUR. Never has been and never will be. The TOUR is a nomadic tribe of truly independent contractors. Each pays his own bus fare, room, meals, and caddy. Those who don't perform, don't eat, and they're back to Triple A -- read Nationwide Tour -- in a heartbeat. From there, it is to a Player's Oblivion of mini-tours and club jobs. These competitive folk most definitely are NOT 'team players.' They cannot afford to be.

In fact, they are The Meateaters. And the meat they eat is that of those against whom they compete every day.

When paired with their natural enemy, they just don't know how to function.

YODA

I am of a little different view, I would suggest that PGA players are team players; a number of them play in best ball matchs or match play events every Tuesday. I believe the main issue rests in the Captain's chair. How many "coachs" in other sports would allow a member or members of the team to practice by themselves? Or, as a coach (captain) if you are going to have player A and player B play alternate shot (where the US gets killed), why would you not have them practice same. Any team, golf or otherwise, is only as good as its LEADER